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Handicaps and how much difference they make...
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Handicaps and how much difference they make...
    Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 6:57pm

We just go sailing when we can and don't do club series as there's far too many other things needing time at weekends and especially don't do the ones at the bigger club where its up to 16 weeks in a series. Boring or what?

One day events tend to be far more fun and something we can commit to.
 
At both clubs where we're members the turnout on weekday evenings is far better than many Sundays probably because it's easier to get away and a break from the working week. When you're sailing you have to concentrate on that to the exclusion of all else which is great midweek therapy.
 
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 3:15pm
Years ago I used to care what the series was at the club. These days, with Junior group eating into some sundays, the odd open into others, back problems meaning missing others and family commitmentsgetting in the way too, I really don't care what the races I can do belong to, I'm just happy (or frustrated, depending on the weather) to be out there.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 2:44pm
I don't think I'd be alone at my club in not really caring, nor knowing when we trip over into the summer or autumn series from the preceding one.... I take each day as it comes, and honestly find a class racing boat probably makes that style of participation easier as I'm less concerned about the laws of averages that a competitive handicap racer needs to accept to give his or her racing any meaning.

If you can't accept those averages, then you end up sounding like Grumpf... or me, 2 years ago.  Embarrassed  

Handicap racing is, in general improving.  Thanks largely to the better data collection from the RYA.  It can get better if clubs submit the data, however it cannot, and nor should anyone assume it can, replace class racing.  It's just another form of dinghy racing.  If you don't like it, help fix it, or sail a class boat.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Shorter series would help. Twelve or 18 race series are daft for a club event.


I dunno: if you have a short series on consecutive weeks is it any easier to turn up to (say) half the races than a longer series?

I keep meaning to do some number crunching on our club turnouts to see if there's any evidence that fewer or more people turn out for the weekends when its a special series rather than when its standard class starts.

Assuming most people can't make every week, I wonder if its easier for them to do every week for a few weeks, or say first sunday of the month etc. But I need to do the number crunching and see what really happens.

I've never really trusted what sailors *say/think* they want after listening to a class AGM voting for 6 races a day back to back at a champs, and the next year seeing half of them scooting back to the beach for a lunch break or skipping the last race of the day whenever they had the opportunity...
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Peaky


Shorter series would help. Twelve or 18 race series are daft for a club event. Another thing that bugs me is the lack of structure to the season, especially at inland clubs that don't have a break. It just seems to go on and on, with little difference from week to week. Some way of differentiating between events would allow you to prioritise which ones to have a good go at.
 
Even with very short series, we don't seem to see people managing their appearances around the series very much. Most people just seem to go out for a race and enjoy it as a standalone day on the water.
 
Perhaps there is some merit in some of the prizes going to stalwart supporters of the club rather than the best sailors winning everything?
Of course the people who sail a lot tend to be in the top half anyway.
 
We do seem to have a bit of a 'silly season' through the summer, with a lot of special events, people away on holiday or at other events, probably the easiest trophies to win. In spring and autumn, it's a bit more consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


Originally posted by JimC

.....Its a problem that I am sure just about every class (handicap or boat on boat) in just about every club in the country is struggling with: how, in these days where people have so many competing demands on their time, can we make it easier for as many people as possible to start enough races to genuinely compete in a series?

.......

 
It's a problem, but most of the participants really don't seem to care much about competing in the series, they are happy to go sailing when they can and enjoy the odd good result.
Even the people winning the series may be more driven by personal goals such as finishing more races without capsize, tactical blunder or breakage, or just achieving a better level of competence in their boat.
 
If people don't want to be racing regardless of where the spreadsheet puts them, we have a bigger problem than the vagaries of the PY system.

Shorter series would help. Twelve or 18 race series are daft for a club event. Another thing that bugs me is the lack of structure to the season, especially at inland clubs that don't have a break. It just seems to go on and on, with little difference from week to week. Some way of differentiating between events would allow you to prioritise which ones to have a good go at.
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 12:13pm
Locally there has been a decline in sunday PM racers, the mornings have a good turnout.

It seems that committing a whole day to sailing is difficult for many.  Individual results where 40 seconds makes a big difference seems to be more important.



Edited by transient - 02 Sep 13 at 12:15pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by JimC

.....
Its a problem that I am sure just about every class (handicap or boat on boat) in just about every club in the country is struggling with: how, in these days where people have so many competing demands on their time, can we make it easier for as many people as possible to start enough races to genuinely compete in a series?

.......
 
It's a problem, but most of the participants really don't seem to care much about competing in the series, they are happy to go sailing when they can and enjoy the odd good result.
Even the people winning the series may be more driven by personal goals such as finishing more races without capsize, tactical blunder or breakage, or just achieving a better level of competence in their boat.
 
If people don't want to be racing regardless of where the spreadsheet puts them, we have a bigger problem than the vagaries of the PY system.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 11:34am
I doubt very much it is 'planned' can't imagine anyone at the RYA with that much strategic marketing nouse, but the Sailjuice lot? Am I wrong in thinking the money comes from the entry fees? Who cares it's good to have big events, I just had a crap race yesterday that I should have bloody won by a mile, the most irritating race ever, flat water lots of nice shifts, deep kite course, I should have creamed it, so things went bad, so find something else to blame and moan about, standard action.

However the Phantom boys were doing well and got Lasered and it was only a lone returnee in a Vario that got a surprise second, but even that he couldn't have been happy to be beaten by a boat that didn't even arrive at the line until four minutes later.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 10:23am
I think you're giving it a bit too much credit Graeme... but if that is 'the plan', then its working and good luck to them, whoever 'them' are... I assume you mean the RYA.  

Our club has turned the corner on falling memberships- in part due to the rise of the Laser fleet again.  To be honest, if I were 20kg lighter it would be the best racing on offer as the demographic tends to be people who work and have families... therefore Wednesday night, Sunday morning become fixtures- irrespective of the wind.  The Solo guys tend to be more split out, and often sail in the day time on a Wednesday as quite a few are retired and aren't forced to sail in the dying breeze after work.  
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