Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Downwind By the Lee & an Unstayed Rig |
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Lukepiewalker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 27 Jul 13 at 9:31pm |
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Unless there has been a change in doctrine, last I checked more kicker is safer but slower, less kicker faster but hairier. We do have to acknowledge there is a difference between sailing on the sea in waves, and sailing in flat waters. And whether the 'can't be bothered gybing' approach also comes into play... not that I have ever sailed by the lee purely because I didn't want to gybe...
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
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rodney ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 915 |
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Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
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bustinben ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Quite right, he isn't. What he is actually doing is letting the main out, heeling to windward and bearing away. When he completes the bear away he'll push down on the leeward deck let the tiller cross and point up again. All of which will result in great speed.
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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I can concur with that, I kind of discovered it by accident in the EPS, you kind of get two 'bottom turns' as we'd say in windsurf parlance, but, only when the wave speed is sufficient of course. I've been playing with it on the lake, trying to work out why it is faster (often with disasterous consequence) it seems with the windflow reversed, the mast acts like an incredible efficient kicker so you have a very tight leech and of course a very unstable leading edge, which, wrong shifted will have you over as soon as... I'm still not sure wether actual kicker on or off is better, with it on it does tighten up the entry, but off it depowers and widens the scope for error correction, someone must know what's best I'm sure the lasers must have it dialled by now, but it is definitely faster down wind and more difficult with a soft sail than a fully battened rig to control afaics. |
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rodney ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 915 |
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Looking at the picture I would say that he is not sailing by the lee. Just look at the angle of the beating boats and draw your own conclusions. He is clearly just about to do a huge, single parting, pump which is allowed within the free pumping rules in the Finn class which starts at 10 knots (only permitted when flag Oscar is raised). Generally, in my experience, it is best to sail conventionally (i.e. not by the lee)in most conditions with the exception that it sometimes pays to sail by the lee when surfing on waves. A bit hairy but can pay big dividends in the right conditions. |
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Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
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sargesail ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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This sort of thing comes up from time to time: folk regard what a judge or lecture or book told them many years ago as being definitively correct.......No doubt the judge, RYA Rules advisor (hmmmm), or local hot shot thought he was correct but actually he was talking out of his bottom. Sadly it happens....
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MattHarris ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
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I'm happy to be wrong, makes life easier using the boom as a guide. Scary thing was this was at an RYA rules night in March 2011, whilst i know that the rules have changed since then to RRS2012-16 i don't think this section has altered considerably. Makes you wonder on how up to date some of the rules bods are.
I know the thing with rugby, i took 2 years out recovering from a shoulder injury and suddenly there were lots of quite big of changes. Took me a month or two to get used to it again and by then i'd trashed my knee ligaments and was sidelined anyway...
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Not any longer, as per the current definition posted subsequent to your post. This sort of thing comes up from time to time: folk regard what a judge or lecture or book told them many years ago as being definitively correct. No doubt it was correct *then* (assuming its being remembered correctly) but that doesn't mean its correct now. Unfortunately you do need to keep up with the rules. Still, at least its not as bad as Rugby where large aspects of the game have utterly changed from the days when I played... |
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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about a boat ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 25 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 60 |
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After sailing an stayed rig for a while I would say it is not where your boom is that matters but rather the leech of the sail is in relation to mast. Remember you will not have any kicker on at all (or very little) so your leech will twist forward. In fact you will need to sheet the boom in to control it hence when sailing by the lee many people have their boom less out than squared off on a dead run. In princple is about opening the leech. To do this further you might want to experiment with using the cunningham and outhaul too to open the leech when sailing by the lee. Goes gainst the grain when sailing down wind but you will be surprised of the result.
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