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Let's hear it for the old guys...
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rodney View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by NickM

It's going nowhere near the topic of the OP. However...I think the point Cameron was making is you can't sail a boat with your company logo plastered all over it and claim it as a business expense if you company has nothing to do with sailing.

Presumably it is not a "benefit in kind" if the sail loft/boat maker/importer owns the boat, the jockey is an employee and part of his job description is to sail it at weekends (or championships) to promote its products. Equally I suppose the loft can "lend" the boat to a "guest" jockey for quite a long time without it being a benefit in kind, but I don't know if that happens.

Agreed!  There are lots of examples of oldies, pensioners even, getting great race results, even overall results in the dinghy world these days.  Just back from the French Finn Nationals and there were a couple of 60+ sailors in the top 10 with a few other close behind.  When it really blows however the results tend not to favour the poor souls challenged by arthritis and other aches and pains (me included).
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
[EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk
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NickM View Drop Down
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Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 5:50pm
It's going nowhere near the topic of the OP. However...I think the point Cameron was making is you can't sail a boat with your company logo plastered all over it and claim it as a business expense if you company has nothing to do with sailing.

Presumably it is not a "benefit in kind" if the sail loft/boat maker/importer owns the boat, the jockey is an employee and part of his job description is to sail it at weekends (or championships) to promote its products. Equally I suppose the loft can "lend" the boat to a "guest" jockey for quite a long time without it being a benefit in kind, but I don't know if that happens.
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rodney View Drop Down
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Posts: 915 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 5:14pm
I am not sure where this is going but it stands to reason that those in the trade will recruit 'top sailors' to help develop their products and 'jockey' them.  The people they recruit are, usually, dinghy enthusiasts who have shown the ability and skills to aid the relevant business. I can't really see the problem as the 'jockeys' are also enthusiasts and would be sailing something, somewhere in a championships and be at the front of the fleet.

For the record Russ is our (Suntouched's) D-One 'jockey' and I am our Finn 'jockey' and neither of us has a cat in hells chance of winning anything (no offence Russ but we are both lucky to be better than mid-fleet).  We, Suntouched, took a different approach and have chosen to just have someone representing us at selected events, Russ solely on the basis of being a friend, with zero financial interest or benefit,who loves the D-One and me just because  Wink  Both Russ and I make our boats available for test sails and can help/advise anyone interested in joining the respective classes.  We are also hoping to recruit some mid fleet Devoti Icon and Devoti Optimist sailors for the same task.
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
[EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk
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NickM View Drop Down
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Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 4:40pm
Yes, but I know at least one sailmaker who has a "works" boat that is used by several members of the team for different events, and the boat is usually sold on after a season.
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Cameron Winton View Drop Down
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Posts: 41 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cameron Winton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 1:18pm
I am sure that a lot of the sail makers etc are not providing stuff at cost, free etc to employees or affiliates. HMRC would have them hung drawn and quartered for "benefit in kind." An accountant friend with clients in Motorsport constantly gets asked questions like "if I put the business on the side of the car it is promotion therefore I can put it through the business." His answer is a great big NO.
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rodney View Drop Down
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Posts: 915 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 13 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

Tim Law used to be one of the best UK Finn sailors in the early 80s and won the preolympics in 82 -ish in LA. so he has done a bit, and is also a veteran.

Tim was also a top Laser sailor before doing his Olympic Finn campaign.  Looking at the list I would say that Tim is the first sailor not to be associated with the industry.   Perhaps Tim deserved a special prize  Wink
Rodney Cobb
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 13 at 9:06pm
Tim Law used to be one of the best UK Finn sailors in the early 80s and won the preolympics in 82 -ish in LA. so he has done a bit, and is also a veteran.
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 13 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by Timmus

1 min 50 secs.... 3DL anyone??? gotta be a speed difference there eh?
Although the pink sail looked a tad oversheeted (stalling out a bit??)

I'd have thought the Chopin classic would have been a more suitable sound track ...
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 13 at 5:42pm
Probably next to sod all difference but so long as a sailmaker brings it the shiny new material/cut, etc and then a top sailor uses it to win, then hey presto everyone wants one. Costs more, presumably with a larger profit margin so everyone's a winner, right? Well at least the sailmaker is. 
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 13 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Timmus

gotta be a speed difference there eh?

so of course boat speed must be the main differential...

With those fully battened sails and 120 boats on the start line, I'd say the main differential is clear wind. 

You can lose miles approaching the windward mark by having to over stand when joining the starboard tack queue. Or failing to barge in on port because of the nose to tail starboard tackers. Under-stand the mark and you will be toast.

So get there in the first 20 or so and you are fine. After that and you are in the mire and no mistake.

And around the rest of the course, clear wind is a pipe dream.

look at the results and you will see that the odd boat in the last third overall, can have one result in single figures or teens. If you can get to the front, you could well have the speed to hang in there. But start in the third rank and its game over, even with proven top-10 speed
Great book for Club Sailors here
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