New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: How international is sailing?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

How international is sailing?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How international is sailing?
    Posted: 04 May 13 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Mike Holt

More representative would be the 505 Worlds in 2012, in France, 188 boats, 15 countries, 3 continents.

Although probably a better way to tell if a class is truly "International" is how many countries host a National Championship for that class.

Ah, that is a bit more what I'd expect to see for the 505. 

I guess any event outside of Europe will have a diminished  fleet due to cost. 


Edited by 2547 - 05 May 13 at 11:42am
Back to Top
Mike Holt View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 29 Nov 09
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 58 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mike Holt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 13 at 3:27pm
More representative would be the 505 Worlds in 2012, in France, 188 boats, 15 countries, 3 continents.

Although probably a better way to tell if a class is truly "International" is how many countries host a National Championship for that class.
Back to Top
Clive Evans View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 18 Feb 13
Location: Sydney
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Clive Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 13 at 6:57am
Originally posted by 2547

Just looking at the 505 worlds results, a class I had always considered to be one of the true international classes ...

It is basically just 4 nations ... GER, GBR, USA & AUS  Ouch

Outside of the Olympic Classes and Optimist which classes are getting a decent mix or are these 4 nations the powehouses of dinghy sailing?

Looking at the results there's 2 from Denmark, Sweden, France and one from Canada

Seems pretty international to me! It would have cost thousands of pounds to transport a boat to Barbados and fly with accommodation etc factors like that would have limited the attending nations

Still with that considered 8 nations represented from 3 continents in one of the least accessible, albeit glorious, venues in the world speaks volumes for the class
Spiral 816
Back to Top
Clive Evans View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 18 Feb 13
Location: Sydney
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Clive Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 13 at 3:11am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by MrGin

According to ISAF I think you need 7 contries to call it a world championships, otherwise you have to call it an Internationals Championships.

Yes, according to ISAF, the Vago is entitled to hold a Worlds on that basis, when in fact I suspect it is raced only in UK, and even here barely so.

Wayfarers., on the other hand, with over 100 boats at their 'International Championships' had well over 100 boats from at least 5 countries, but were not entitled to use the term 'Worlds'.



The wayfarer was an interesting one, when I worked at ISAF I had to write to them instructing them to not use the term "world" not something I'm pleased to have had to do

About the same time there was a trend to send ringers to the worlds with fabricated nationalities in an attempt to make it look like a class was more international

The favourite was to get a Brit or European who was working in Dubai to stick UAE on the sail to boost the continents when they are not citizens of that country, to be honest it's really obvious what they are doing when you are sat at ISAF making decisions so I'm not sure why they bothered!

For example I'm in Australia now and sail with Australian sail numbers whilst here but if I went to a worlds I could display AUS but I can't count as an Australian entrant since I'm not a citizen of Australia

That's why activity in the required number of countries is looked for not worlds attendance - it's too easy to find dual citizens to display exotic sail numbers, much harder to get fleets of boats

It would appear the holiday centres are the new loop, but having 20 fevas on a beach in Egypt sailed by British holiday makers doesn't make an international class either does it?
Spiral 816
Back to Top
Presuming Ed View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Feb 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Rupert

If you have to be an ISAF International class to hold a 'worlds', why don't you have to be an RYA National class to hold a 'Nationals', as opposed to a  'Class Champs'. 

Used to be how it works. Local classes, national classes (which hold nationals), international classes which hold worlds. 
Back to Top
MrGin View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrGin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by MrGin

The Endeavour trophey has nothing to do with the RYA it just recognises it. It is by invitation only. I'm not sure which class you refer too with respect to automatic qualification.
http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/


None, at the moment, seeing as it is by invite. However, if you look back through previous postings on the subject, who gets the invite (or doesn't) can cause handbags at dawn on here. If the RYA kept the concept of National Classes current, then it would make a good basis for who gets the invites. I'm sure there would be many other uses for it, too.

However, the concept of National classes seems to be very out of favour in the sailing world - maybe it became an old-fashioned idea when the most sailed classes of racing dinghy ceased to be local classes and became thinly spread over large geographic areas, whereas before only a few classes were widespread enough to be "National".

Pretty much the same could be said for International classes - some have massive geographic spread, thanks to holiday companies, but no real international competition.
 
Both ISAF and the RYA are both adminstrators for there classes. The National Class associations recommend to the RYA about rule changes and the RYA check the validity of the changes and then adminstrate them by releasing new class rules, I suspect it works the same for a lot of the ISAF class associations ( ie GP14) except for the Manufacture's classes that only have one builder ( ie RS / topper).
Phil A8152 "Albaholic"
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by MrGin

The Endeavour trophey has nothing to do with the RYA it just recognises it. It is by invitation only. I'm not sure which class you refer too with respect to automatic qualification.
http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/


None, at the moment, seeing as it is by invite. However, if you look back through previous postings on the subject, who gets the invite (or doesn't) can cause handbags at dawn on here. If the RYA kept the concept of National Classes current, then it would make a good basis for who gets the invites. I'm sure there would be many other uses for it, too.

However, the concept of National classes seems to be very out of favour in the sailing world - maybe it became an old-fashioned idea when the most sailed classes of racing dinghy ceased to be local classes and became thinly spread over large geographic areas, whereas before only a few classes were widespread enough to be "National".

Pretty much the same could be said for International classes - some have massive geographic spread, thanks to holiday companies, but no real international competition.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
MrGin View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrGin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by 2547

I think it would make more sense if the ISAF status required a functioning class association to be present in a number of countries rather than a manufacturer just producing a delivery note ...
 
Good idea but it's more about the money RE: Kirby Torch/Laser
Phil A8152 "Albaholic"
Back to Top
MrGin View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrGin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 3:24pm
The Endeavour trophey has nothing to do with the RYA it just recognises it. It is by invitation only. I'm not sure which class you refer too with respect to automatic qualification.
http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/endeavour/
Phil A8152 "Albaholic"
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 13 at 3:10pm
I think it would make more sense if the ISAF status required a functioning class association to be present in a number of countries rather than a manufacturer just producing a delivery note ...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy