Pre-big kite 505 PY

Originally posted by Peaky I agree, clubs should adjust a PY if a, for example, classic version is being sailed. The Class Association is well placed to suggest what those altered numbers may be, but they have no authority to say 'thou shalt use this number for these boats' - it can only be a suggestion. Do the MROA have a suggestion for the latest 2013 boats? After all, if the PY is an average and old boats get a boost up, the new ones should get a penalty down from the RYA number. ......

I think the majority of the MR's being raced on the standard number under PY are probably no more out of step with the latest boat than most other classes.
The 'standard' number covers boats from 1999, then they suggest a change of +10 for boats back to 1988. Most of the boats getting +10 will not have raking rigs or the best hull shape, and will probably be either wooden or heavy or both.
+10 is not a big change, we've had 5 taken off the 400 over the last few years, and I think the MR has lost more from its base number?
Maybe more CA's should collect some age related data.
Things like the 505, contender and Furball may not have changed shape quite as obviously, but they have evolved.
In some circumstances, low tech GRP Ents etc probably deserve a PY boost, compared to a really good wooden one of the same age.
The trouble is, the more you slice and dice the numbers the smaller the samples get.

Another problem arises when the RYA number goes down next year. Do you lower the old-boat PY by the same amount, on the basis that they could adopt the improved sails etc., or leave it as is?

Clubs are perfectly entitled to give a different handicap to a boat that is clearly not what the published PY is looking at - the aim is fair racing, not a jobsworth "that is the number". I owned a 1970's Moth for a while. Should I have sailed it off 600?

The problem comes when one is not looking at a different design within a class, but at a one design that has subtly changed. How much is the change, and how much simply old boat? Which, in my view, shouldn't be allowed for in non Classics racing.

What you are proposing to do is wholly reasonable.

Dougal, that's what the PY was historically.

Before 1995 we were on the intermediate numbers and the minimum change was about 9 points in current money.

Somewhere between 1989 and 1995 (I don't have every year's numbers) it dropped by 1 point from 97 to 96 (915 to 906 in modern equivalents), in 1998 from 906 to 903, and in 1999 to 902 where its remained.

Don't forget that a change that gets your bow out into clear air first off a start line of 90 very similar boats may have a big impact on championship race places, yet not make a huge difference to actual round the track speed against the clock.