Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Are too many dinghies too short? |
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MerlinMags ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Mar 04 Location: UK, Guildford Online Status: Offline Posts: 588 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 13 Mar 13 at 11:52am |
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If anyone is truly interested, I can make a graph of how many classes appear in each length bracket, and compare today's list against that of 1960. I'd need help filling in the hull lengths our database is missing though.
I did something similar a while back, graphing length against speed, and then chuckling over the extreme outlying points: ![]() Yes, I am a bit of a nerd for this stuff. But it never feels like it becasue my brother has a PhD in stats.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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The X1 is long and slim, and very, very light. Seems it carries weight well, too.
I keep on doodling 15' double ended singlehanders, where you get the long W/L length, but keep the weight out of the ends. Of course, the Int Canoe has been doing this successfully at 17' for eons! |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Adding length cheaply would add weight.
But lots of boats could be built longer without weighing any more, with perhaps modest use of better material? A longer boat will put more stress on the hull when one end is out of the water or whatever. Modern foam sandwich hulls probably have plenty of stiffness to cope, where a single skin grp or ply hull might not. Isn't a 59er quite long? Does that suggest making a long boat is not always the way to go? I suppose I'm biased toward longer boats having spent some time sailing yachts from A to B, length is good in that regime. |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Yes, as I started reading this thread I was thinking of how the Alto has really caught on at WSC with people who are too big for 400's and 800's. The scow/tunnel-hulled Intl Moth was another boat screaming out for more length. I'd love a 15 foot version. Jack Sparrow has listed reasons for keeping boats short; individuals may or not consider each of those to be an important consideration. One of his reasons I'd maybe question (while acknowledging that he should, as a builder haver the answer) is that length adds significantly to the weight. I'd have thought that once you had the structure in place to take the rig and centreboard loads, you could tack on extra length for relatively little extra weight - how much does a section of hull at bow or stern weigh? Not much so far as I can see.
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ex laser ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 25 Mar 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 725 |
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as far as i am concerned, as a british moth sailor, no boat needs to be longer than 11 feet!!!!
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tick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 16 Nov 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 223 |
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I always think Supernova goes well because of its length. It has the mast well back and a long fine entry. It also suits a variation of weight. Not that much canvas either.
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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As a comparison, it seems that British dinghies may have less LOA variation, if we look at the popular classes. There's none of the very popular 17-19' 3-person classes that one sees in the USA or Australia, for example, in the form of Lightnings, Thistles, Flying Scots, Sharpies and 16 Foot Skiffs*. As I understand it this is partly because the UK traditionally had smaller cars and garages (which is something Jack Holt noted) and perhaps because you often sail on smaller waterways. This was noted by people like COnrad Gulcher and Westell many years ago when they created the 505 and FD as a blend of long Euro boats and shorter British boats.
On the other hand, the Yanks also have a fondless for bizarrely small boats in the form of adults sailing 8' El Toros and Sabot and even smaller Frosties, whereas down here we may have a disproportionate number of adults sailing Mirrors, 125s and Herons and other 11-12' two-handers. It was noticeable in the women's skiff thread that the Brits seemed to place a higher value on a boat being short and sensitive than sailors from other areas may. It's also noticeable (from personal experience and the writings of many experts) that being highly sensitive was seen as an inherent virtue whereas from an outsider's perspective, it's nothing more than a perfectly understandable national quirk. ![]() D'oh, well a 16 is 16 feet LOA but if one takes into consideration rig size etc it's much bigger than a Fireball or similar, and it is a three-handers. You get the drift!
Edited by Chris 249 - 12 Mar 13 at 11:19am |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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By how much has the Icon stretched it's 14ft lineage?
.... well to about 14' 10" in old money with a very near vertical bow as you ask. It is a good compromise and was needed to inject a bit more weight carrying capability into the hull compared to the NS 14 'pre-cursers' (so both longer/wider) .. which makes it about the same length as a Tasar in fact. It certainly keeps the Icon moving better in lighter stuff as well as in proper wind. We reckon the range of ideal crew weight to be 140-175kg but that those a few kg either side of this range should stiill find things competitive. Mike L. Edited by blaze720 - 11 Mar 13 at 8:53pm |
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skslr ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 24 Jul 06 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 139 |
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Yes, too many boats are too short. More and more folks are taller than 6 feet, so they are on the "heavy" side of the spectrum, no matter how fit/skinny/... they are. For example too few double handers can carry two tall guys, who have no chance to get their combined crew weight below 160 kgs, and rather will weigh in at 180 kgs, comfortably. At least I am very happy that the RS800 is 16' as opposed to the usual 14', I do not need any extensions to stick out at the front and back just to make up for a lack in hull length :-) And a 505 would not be what it is at 14', too... |
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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I'd say we're bigger on average, 'average' being of adult active participants paying with their own cash that is. I have an old 1980s Douglas Gill spray suit - off ebay for a comedy retro sailing suit one day. size XL which normally fit in 21stC Gill- but it's way too tight and short in both arm and leg. I will have to lose weight and have leg length reduction surgery to realise the comic genius of this acquisition... |
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