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Port and starboard on a dead run
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JD View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Port and starboard on a dead run
    Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 12:47pm
My understanding is that a boat is on starboard tack when the wind is blowing over the right hand side of the boat.  I think, more commonly (at least at my club) this is interpreted as boom over the left hand side of the boat, which is fine for a beat/reach, but can cause problems on the run.

For example, a laser or topper can easily run by the lee, such that the boom is over the right side of the boat, and the wind is also on the right side.  

Is this boat on port (as it would appear from boom position) or starboard (wind position)?  

A difficult situation would be two lasers on a dead run, both with their booms over the right side of the boat (on port).  If the 'windward' boat (the one on the left) were to bear off and run by the lee, does she then have rights over the other as a starboard boat?  If so how would you prove you were by the lee in a protest?
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 1:08pm
Not sure you can, the only way you can really tell is the side of the boom defining tack.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 1:41pm
Perhaps the most vital part of the rules are the definitions. You need to know these at least as well as the actual rules. So here's the vital definition...

Leeward and Windward A boat’s leeward side is the side that is or, when she is head to wind, was away from the wind. However, when sailing by the lee or directly downwind, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is her windward side. When two boats on the same tack overlap, the one on the leeward side of the other is the leeward boat. The other is the windward boat.


So the boom defines it. Whether running by the lee or not is irrelevant.

Quite what the RRS would have to say if I were sailing a Viking longship replica with a symmetrical square sail and no fore and aft sails I'm not quite sure. Gordon? Are you there? Actually there must be quite a few other rules that get very complicated if one party is on a boat that doesn't gybe...
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JD View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by JimC

 However, when sailing by the lee or directly downwind, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies.

So what is the proper definition of port/starboard?  If it is defined by which side the wind is blowing over, as I thought, then my question still stands as it is not about windward leeward when port/starboard overrides it.

Or, do you interpret the above to mean that if leeward is defined by the boom, then that implies that windward is the opposite side, regardless of where the wind is really coming from?  i.e. your 'official' windward side can sometimes be your leeward side?!

I would have thought this situation comes up frequently with (e.g) lasers weaving between a broad reach and by the lee course to maintain speed downwind?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 2:16pm
The rules are linked from here.
http://www.sailing.org/documents/racing-rules.php
The definitions are at the back, starting at page 154. It really is crucially important to know them:-)

Tack, Starboard or Port A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding
to her windward side.


Edited by JimC - 02 Jan 12 at 2:43pm
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 2:17pm
The definitions are clear - unfortunately nobody ever reads the definitions except the Jury!To resume:

1 A boat is on the tack (P or S) corresponding to her windward side.

2 The leeward side of a boat is:
- the side away from the wind, or
- when the  boat is head to wind the side that was away from the wind (so 2 boats head to wind can be on opposite tacks) or
- when a boat is sailing dead downwind, the side on which her mainsail lies. , or
- when a boat is sailing by the lee, the side on which her mainsail lies.

3 The windward side is the other side.


Complications
 - Lasers can run by the lee at some 30° above the downwind course - they are stillon the tack on which their mainsail lies
- A boat running nearly downwind can attempt to pass the mainsail on to the other side. However, she is not running by the lee until the mainsail fills on the new side so she is still on the original tack!

If there is any confusion about which tack a boat is on a Jury will return to the last point of certainty to decide.

As for the Viking longship - or a cruising boat running under twin jibs and no main...

If running directly downwind - apply the last point of certainty method until it becomes clear that the boat has changed tack. Can a square sail run by the lee?

Happy New Year.

PS For January - read a definition every day, and ask questions here if anything is unclear.
Gordon
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JD View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 12 at 2:21pm
Great that clears it up then, thanks!
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 8:35pm
There is an unwritten rule:

Vikings have right of way!


Not sure about tall ships though. I guess if they've managed this long without a definition, it's a moot point.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 1:13pm
The Viking ships may have problmes with rule 14 "Avoiding Contact".

Don't most "tall ships" have a fore and aft sail on the mizzen mast? Anyway, I am not certain that they race using the RRS.

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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 4:43pm
they do use fore and aft sails, but aren't likely to have them up when going dead down wind- the same goes for all their for and aft sails between masts and at the front- surely?
-_
Al
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