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Should I switch to a Laser 4K?

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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should I switch to a Laser 4K?
    Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 1:47pm
There's been some chat at our sailing club about a few of
us changing to Laser 4000's. We'd be changing from a
Vago.

The boat looks good but I have a few concerns;

Obviously the boat is no longer in production so what's
the situation with spares/sails etc?

I've read that the hull is fairly heavy. How heavy is
heavy? Our Vago ain't no flying moth. Are they
comparable?

What's with the wing wang things (pole gybing lines) for
the swinging pole?

What is upwind performance like? I've heard it's not
outstanding but is upwind planing still possible?

Anything else I need to know?

I just wish we had the conversation before last weekend.
We could have had a good look at some 4K's at Rutland.


Edited by ellistine
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 7:24pm
The last person I know who owned one found it nearly impossible to sell, so be aware of that...Of course that probably also means they're very easy to buy...

To my mind they are very big heavy lumps, but I am horribly biased towards light boats: they are so much not my sort of boat that it would be invidious of me to pass much comment. I've only sailed one a couple of times and was not anxious to repeat the experience, but hundreds more people bought 4 Tonners than bought most classes I do rave about, so my opinions are something less than mainstream!

The wing wang things are not a big deal, you just train the helm to pull on the string after a gybe. You may or may not need to have them in some special position or another for hoists and drops to work properly, I don't know as regards the 4000.

As I remember Wet and Windy or someone have bought up all the spares, so until they start running out of things spares should be easy enough. Whether or which bits they'll manufacture new batches of if/when the stock does run out is another matter of course, but if it gets to that stage whatever's left of the class will presumably be much less precious about using only "official" one design parts! At a last resort you can probably get a reasonable equivalent for pretty much any part of any boat made by a development boat builder provided you cross his palm with sufficient folding paper...
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by ellistine


I've read that the hull is fairly heavy. How heavy is
heavy? Our Vago ain't no flying moth. Are they
comparable?


Just found the answer to one of my own questions;

Vago Hull Weight: 106Kg
Laser 4000 Hull Weight: 80Kg
RS500 Hull Weight: 77Kg
RS800 Hull Weight: 62Kg

Doesn't seem too bad

Edited by ellistine
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:01pm
Thanks Jim,

Yes selling them on might be a concern, but as I keep
reminding myself (and as you put yourself), sailing is no
great investment.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:06pm
there is one on ebay at the moment,

here's the link
the same, but different...

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:06pm
I suspect compared to your Vago a 4k will be a dream.

There's one at our club, quite a beat up one but it puts on a turn of speed
now and again.

Redback on here is the bloke to ask he's often posting in the weekend
thread seems to enjoy his.

I guess their pretty low cost now. If money were not an option I'd point
you straight at an Alto, much better all rounder and I suspect faster over
a broader range of conditions, certainly takes out a 4k in the light stuff
maybe not as fast at high angles in a breeze, but can take them out if
they get their angles wrong by soaking and or using the swinging pole.

A much better choice than an RS500..

But then again its probably pricey although if there were a few of you I
bet a deal and a half could be struck right now just to get some fleets
built.

Edited by G.R.F.
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Rockhopper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:09pm
we had one for six months and we did not really like it thats was due to us being very heavy 25.5 stone we went back and bought another 5000 which suits us better. but saying that we sold ours within four weeks to a set of guys from france so dont worry a couple of guys at our club sold one with a broken mast again it went over seas.
Retired now after 35 seasons in a row and time for a rest.
2004 national champ Laser5000
2007,2010,National Champ Rs Vareo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:13pm

Haven''t sailed a 4k much, but in light winds there are sooooooo.... uncomfortable for the crew - shins bruised on the lead weights

 

 

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:22pm
Pretty sure that "Hull weight" is purely that- the scaffolding adds about another 20kgs or so (winding up on about parity with an Iso, weight wise).

It does however have a fair bit more sail, especially up front, and is quite a bit quicker- if you're looking for a "budget" step-up from a Vago, I reckon you could do a lot, lot worse.

Alternatively, you could go radical and go B14 I know of a decent condition Rondar about to go on the market...

Edited by alstorer
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 09 at 8:51pm
We did talk about the RS500 (all our crews want to
trapeze) , and to be honest I would
have been happy to switch to it, but the other two helms
are currently sailing 400's and after a recent test sail
found it a bit uninspirational.

Our asymmetric fleet is pretty much 2000 dominated with
ones and twos from other classes. It would make sense to
consolidate some of these other classes and the weight
equalisation would be good as we're a mix of
husband/wife, father/son/daughter combinations.

The trouble with out of production boats is you can't
just ring up for a test sail!



Edited by ellistine
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