2 handed boat sailed single handed

   Quick question, if a double handed boat (RS400 class rules state it should be sailed by 2 persons) was sailed in a club series race single handed, should it have an adjusted PY.

Bit more info:- It was sailed 2 handed all series except the last race.

Thanks,

Edited by GK.LaserII

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Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Topic: 2 handed boat sailed single handed Posted: 21 May 07 at 3:25pm
	Quick question, if a double handed boat (RS400 class rules state it should be sailed by 2 persons) was sailed in a club series race single handed, should it have an adjusted PY. Bit more info:- It was sailed 2 handed all series except the last race. Thanks, Edited by GK.LaserII

MattK Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 02 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 221	Post Options Post Reply Quote MattK Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 3:38pm
	The mirror has a different PY for single handed, which puts it faster than the standard setup, the argument being that there is less weight in the boat, but the time lost in the turns and doing the kite alone mean its usually slower round a course. So maybe the 400 should have a different PY but which way to move it is a more difficult question.

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 3:45pm
	I would say it is down to your club to make a decision on it. At Hunts we tend to allow it on the same PY as even though there is less weight in the boat there is more skill involved (esp in a boat with a kite) which normally either makes it the same speed overall or slower. Regards, Paul
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

Garry Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536	Post Options Post Reply Quote Garry Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 5:13pm
	My view would be that if the class rules stipulate 2 crew,to sail it in any other configuration would make it out of class. If the class rules don't then its fair game to sail with as many or few as you like. As for PY, since this is a statistical measure, probably difficult to get an accurate PY for it sailed single handed. For fairness, if no one objects I would suggest sailing it off the same handicap. I think you'll find that the mirror single handed PY is for it stepped in the forward step with no jib or kite! Edited by Garry
	Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 5:39pm
	The Mirror PY is for the boat sailed 3 sailed. (at least the one we are talking about is - the mirror somehow seems to have done what almost every other class has failed to do and get multiple PYs. We have a system where any boat with a PY of more than 1000 races with 20 points knocked off the PY. Anything faster than that is unlikely to be quicker singlehanded. The points are knocked off mainly to encourage people not to leave the crew ashore when the wind drops, but some boats (the Firefly being a good example) are certainly faster with one in in a force 1. Edited by Rupert
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 5:48pm
	Thanks for your replies, well put as usual. Edited by GK.LaserII

NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 8:48pm
	I sailed a laser 2 single handed at my club for years. Nobody ever objected because I never won anything. It certainly wasn't class legal (nor was the boat) but the club just let me sail off it's normal PY. Now I'm sailing a V3000 single handed a lot - the class racing charter allows single handing but we've insufficient data to set a separate PY, so I'm still sailing off the normal 1030 - and no objections to date (except one race officer who asked "is that really in the medium fleet??). As already said, it's up to the club whether or not they'll let you do it .... ... if they won't, join a different club. If they will but aren't happy with the PY let them set you a personal handicap. NB: due to the additional difficulty and poor high wind performance, some classes actually set a higher PY for single handing (the Vago for instance).
	Javelin 558 Contender 2574

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 07 at 8:55pm
	I suppose I could ditch my standard Laser and single hand my L2 when my crew is away.

Rob.e Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 19 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 545	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rob.e Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 May 07 at 5:11pm
	We have a guy at Potchester who used to sail his Leader singlehanded, and I think they had to give him a faster H/cap in the end, due to the weight: he was going too fast! (I think the Leader has a good h/cap anyway). Basically, if it becomes an issue, the club can do something. If it isn't an issue, there's no reason to do anything!

Yello Streak Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Newbie Joined: 23 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 25	Post Options Post Reply Quote Yello Streak Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:59am
	I suppose the big question is when a change of crew number happens... It could be argued (and has been on many occasions) that it is slightly unfair to leave the crew behind when the wind drops, or conversely, phone up your Rugby player sized mate when a force 6/7 is forecast.. In most classes where 'equalisation' is branded, then crew number, weight and sometimes height are applied as part of the measurement certificate.. there must be a rationale for this approach and should this approach be adopted by other calsses or even as a club ruling for example: should the RS400 (for example) sailor have two separate sets of race results... one set for two up and the other for single-handed? fair - possilbly, practical - probably not.. In my eyes, it has to be down to the discretion of the race officer or further still, the race committee at a policy level. This may however have a detrimental effect on some of the smaller clubs who occasionally struggle to get two or more boats out for racing.. Tough decision for the race officials I think..