Dart 16 X or F16

   Dear all,

Im a new cat sailor who has just taken level 2 on a Dart 16 after years of wanting to getting into cat sailing. My experience level is limited, family had a GP14 as a kid with bosun, Contessa 38 and vic 34 sailing through the military. So not a novice. The course was great, I loved the boat, with its simplicity, easy rigging, beachability, and being boomless would be good for the kids. The thing is.... without being clever, I found the boat had limitations by the end of the week. This could be because the boat supposed to make you feel this way, in which case, fine. The various f16 cats look very impressive, but would this be an evolutionary jump for me? Or after a couple of weeks is there a good chance that I could have it tamed. (promo vids are awe inspiring and terrifying all in one!). The Dart 16X is a newby that ive seen which is stiffer, 15% lighter, racing sails, twin trapeze and genny kit as standard. With the good aspects for a young family etc. Is this a good compromise for my level? Or is the f16 the way to go? Your thoughts and experience would be much appreciated.

Dan

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DanW Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 29 Apr 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote DanW Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Dart 16 X or F16 Posted: 03 May 07 at 10:17am
	Dear all, Im a new cat sailor who has just taken level 2 on a Dart 16 after years of wanting to getting into cat sailing. My experience level is limited, family had a GP14 as a kid with bosun, Contessa 38 and vic 34 sailing through the military. So not a novice. The course was great, I loved the boat, with its simplicity, easy rigging, beachability, and being boomless would be good for the kids. The thing is.... without being clever, I found the boat had limitations by the end of the week. This could be because the boat supposed to make you feel this way, in which case, fine. The various f16 cats look very impressive, but would this be an evolutionary jump for me? Or after a couple of weeks is there a good chance that I could have it tamed. (promo vids are awe inspiring and terrifying all in one!). The Dart 16X is a newby that ive seen which is stiffer, 15% lighter, racing sails, twin trapeze and genny kit as standard. With the good aspects for a young family etc. Is this a good compromise for my level? Or is the f16 the way to go? Your thoughts and experience would be much appreciated. Dan

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 11:03am
	Dan, What sort of budget do you have for a boat, this might be the limiting factor !
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 1:30pm
	deleetd as duplicate Edited by Scooby_simon
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Shadowman Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 24 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shadowman Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 2:05pm
	Dart 16s are unlikely to hold your interest and it is high risk buying a new untried version. It may not "work" as a concept and you will lose your shirt. Unless you are absolutely certain that catsailing is the love of your life, I would suggest buying something that is not too expensive and has a good second hand market, good class asson & racing circuit. A Dart18 suggests itself as a good family boat and dimensionally more of a boat than a D16 - only drawback is that it does not have a kite. Fine with kids though. Our dinghy park has a lot of D16s bought after Med holidays and never sailed! The F16 is a great boat but might be better when you have really got to grips and decided if the sport is really for you. In that line, of the new asy boats it is the only one designed to be sailed s/h as Scooby Simon does or two up but they aren't cheap. If you just want two up then you should look at the Spitfire. If you want a s/h then you should also look at the Shadow.

Dermot M Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Groupie Joined: 23 Aug 06 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 59	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dermot M Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 2:15pm
	As a short quich answer, I would say, If racing is a priority, you will learn to control the considerable extra power of a Formula 16 or a Spitfire. If you want to sail off a beach and have fun with the kids, the robust Dart 16 X would be good compromise with a good bit more power from the X than the standard Dart 16. Edited by Dermot M
	Dermot Shadow 075

AdrianM Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 03 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 33	Post Options Post Reply Quote AdrianM Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 3:46pm
	Dan Another way to consider might be to buy one of the D16's lying in compounds for a steal. Fit a genny kit when ready and then trade up if it had everyones interest or sell for the same money you for it if you/the family decide they don't like. As a starter boat the D16 has many things in it's favour - fairly unbreakable so you won't get stressed with gelcoat damage, furling jib so nice and easy coming in to shore, reefing main and with the genny really good fun. A guy at our club picked a virtually unused one up c/w trailer for just over £2k, it's a lot og laughs for that sort of money. The F16 to my mind is more of a racing boat and will be far more technical to sail, mast rotation, outhaul, prebend + diamond tension etc will give you a far steeper learning curve than the D16. It may not be as 'family friendly' as the D16 either but will be much quicker! Other things to consider are where will you be sailing and what cats are sailed there? Sailing with/against other similiar boats usually helps with learning.

mrzen Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Newbie Joined: 01 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote mrzen Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 4:45pm
	May be out of budget, but the new topax 16cx is pretty much a spitfire rig on a easy to maintain chassis - no daggerboards etc... I've seen one up close, but never sailed one - anyone else? Hobie 15 is also good fun, easy to maintain and you can upgrade with a spinnaker kit if required.
	Hobie Tiger Hayling Ferry Sailing Club

gary145 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 05 Aug 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 116	Post Options Post Reply Quote gary145 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 07 at 10:07pm
	hey thats all good advice! I agree particularly with favouring what type is sailed at your home club, usually there is a reason that class is popular there. Dart 16 would be my bet for you, it has the kite option and you can easy trade up to a faster class after a while good luck


radixon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407	Post Options Post Reply Quote radixon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 May 07 at 9:31pm
	Ok as know one has yet mentioned it: Where are you based? Are you a member of a Sailing Club? The best bet is to visit a club, I can recommend mine in Essex, www.marconi-sc.org.uk , others will recommend theirs. The best bet is to visit a club near you, go down and see what boats are there. See if you can crew for someone so you get more experience etc etc. The Cat course is great but as has been mentioned the Dart 16 is good to try cat sailing but doesn't provide the thrill of real Cat sailing. So see what boats are sailed near to you, try crewing for others and then make a decide after that.

GM Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 19 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote GM Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 May 07 at 10:08pm
	I bought a Stealth as my first cat. With the benefit of hindsight would I do the same again? Absolutely.