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Laser International: Saving the Sport of Sailing i |
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davidyacht 
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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 Topic: Laser International: Saving the Sport of Sailing iPosted: 04 Oct 18 at 6:56am |
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Is it only me, but doesn’t the defence of the Laser’s slot in the Olympics appear just a little bit arrogant? And I wonder how much of this is self inflicted by the supply issues and Rastergar ... sort of inevitable?
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Happily living in the past
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Noah
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Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 7:41am |
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Totally agree. e.g. "... the correct decision..."
In terms of equipment, modernity (is that a word?), ergonomics, and all the rest I really hope new equipment is selected. The downside is that Olympic selection can be the death knell for a class (esp when deselected).
Whether any of the others have the manufacturing ability of LP and the other L@ser builders is a question the selection process will have to answer. I suspect that RS will get a tick in that box, but D-Zero & Melges? Dunno. |
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 7:55am |
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You make a very good point with regards the supply issues - the legal charade is really pathetic. I would also agree it comes across as arrogant rather assured and confident; however I find it hard to disagree with their core arguments around global reach and disruption in the event they get unseated... let’s be honest though, it’s highly unlikely to happen... isn’t it????
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 7:58am |
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I can only agree 100% with the Laser class. Dropping the boat would be a stupid and indefensible position that could really harm Olympic sailing, particularly given the threat to the only other really popular Olympic class (the RSX).
The Laser is the ONLY really strong global class in the entire sport apart from the Opti. It has grown, in terms of its proportion of the sport, in recent times. It has brought in concepts like the 4.7/Radial/standard integration. It is pretty much the major class in many emerging nations. It is utterly stupid that sailing could conceive that a "global" sport could have no "global" set of Olympic equipment. The IOC's Olympic Programme Commission criteria stress the fact that sailing must become more global, not less. You don't achieve that by telling all the smaller sailing nations that they must now scrap their 4.7/Radial/standard programmes and go out and buy complete new fleets of whatever. There are more criteria, and more criticisms, of sailing's poor global reach in IOC OPC reports than there are of the much-hyped lack of media and spectators. The chart on the Laser submission says a hell of a lot - 85 countries in the men's Laser compared to 36 for the Finn after 70 years, and 36 for the 49er as the "modern dinghy". Looking at the intercontinal spread, an area that the IOC says sailing must improve on, shows it even more clearly - just 2 Asian nations with Finns and 5 with Finns compared to 17 with Lasers. In Africa there was 8 nations with Lasers, 1 with 49ers and 2 with Finns. The Laser is clearly the class with the intercontinental spread that the IOC says our sport requires. Telling the 50 or so nations that have an active Olympic Laser fleet but don't have an active 49er or Finn fleet (which arguably indicates whether they'd pick up a new boat) that they have renew their fleet is a great way to let them know that sailing doesn't give a stuff about them. This seems like a bunch of techheads from rich countries giving two fingers to the smaller countries and the poorer countries, without care for the fact that it is the support of such countries that keeps sailing in the Games. And yes, the RS and Zero are lovely boats but if modernity is what counts then a hiking seahugger (a concept first seen in the Games in the 1920s) looks pretty old compared to winged foilers. On the bright side, if this stupid decision does succeed, it could be a good thing for the Laser class. The RS, probably the only real contender, will probably end up like the 49er - a good boat with nothing but small fleets of Olympic contenders. The huge strength of the juniors may die but it may return to being strong in the 21-35 year age bracket. Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Oct 18 at 8:31am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Noah
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Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 8:03am |
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That's about the only positive in their favour, as far as I can see. Add in the IP dispute (what's the latest on that BTW?) and the possibility of the boats built NOT being L@sers and the prospect of a full on cluster-*** is on the cards. Prediction: If equipment other than the L@ser is selected, it'll end up in court.
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 8:32am |
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I doubt that, the 49er has a huge difficulty factor which means it will never be a peoples boat. As a result pretty much the only class racing you can get is against Olympic squads, which can be a pretty humbling experience, which further reduces the fleet size. Add to that the class has followed a strategy of updating the boat to keep pressing performance. Good for the image of class, but not good for maintaining local fleets. The Aero was always designed as a peoples single hander and for the average club fleet it will make little or no difference. I hope this is where the Aero manufacturing design really comes in to play and they can significantly reduce the price if it hits true mass scale. Could be wishful thinking though. Most likely they'll stick with Laser, which a kick up the backside to sort out their supply chain.
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 8:36am |
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My understanding is its all about european competition law, and ISAF now has little choice but to throw it open. I was expecting it to be something of a box ticking exercise, but they're certainly making it look genuine. I wonder how much effort RS et al are really putting in? Laser certainly haven't made too many friends recently.
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 8:41am |
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What about the RS Neo? It looks like a poly Aero, cheap and durable (which the Aero is most definitely not) and easy to mass produce.
But, as someone who dislikes the Laser for various reasons, I would still agree that it is the only sensible choice. Re - EU competition law? I can't see how that affects things, the IOC and YS are neither businesses or government bodies but, to all intents and purposes, private clubs so they can do pretty much what they want WRT 'business decisions' can't they? Edited by Sam.Spoons - 04 Oct 18 at 8:44am |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 9:01am |
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Sure, the 49er is a hard boat to sail, but 470s, Europes, Mistral windsurfers and Solings were all mass-market classes that ended up losing their club fleets because Joe and Joanna Average don't want to race in a class where they know they will end up legs behind in championships. There were 13,000 or so 470s before that class became Olympic but club fleets soon became very rare in most areas. In Sydney there were so many Solings they had to start in two divisions but they soon vanished and everyone went to Etchells where they didn't have to race against full timers. Having grown up in a place that had club fleets of 12s, 14s, 16s and 18s it seems that the 49er's issue was not just the fact that it's hard to handle - 12s must be harder to sail but they have attracted weekend warriors unlike the 49er. We see the same thing in Lasers where the 21-30 year olds no longer race - I know a guy who was on the podium in the open standard worlds and then walked away from the class once it went Olympic because they would no longer have a hope of being competitive. Some of his rivals, in contrast, returned to the class as Masters because it gives them an achievable goal. It would be good if Laser got their act together. A couple of stick-on ergonomic aids (why not wedge-shaped foam hiking pads and a movement of the tiller pivot bolt) and other easy updates and a new attitude from Rastegar could be good for everyone. I agree that the 49er updates may be problematic but updating an entire class of thousands of boats will be an entirely new dimension! Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Oct 18 at 9:04am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 18 at 9:18am |
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Given that sailing has lost its place in the paralympics, ISTM that maximum numbers of countries participating is the key. I can't see any other class than Laser being able to provide any credible fleet racing in half as many countries.
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