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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Club Starting procedures
    Posted: 03 Feb 14 at 10:22pm
If you're at a small club, you've (hopefully) got a simple start sequence. Grafham has a five fleet sequence for Sunday racing. Now, I appreciate that having starts at five minute intervals would be interminable. The "old system" used buckets, but mainly just a red one that was up and down in a confusing manner every three minutes, and boards with a numeral pennant and number as "class flags". the new system is:
In the December newsletter we announced a January trial for Sunday racing using number boards 
instead of the “bucket” system used for starting our races. 
For those of you who haven’t raced in January, this is what 
the number boards look like (with one of the “buckets” 
alongside just to show the relative size). The numbers 
change every minute, starting from “0”. When the “5” is 
displayed it’s the start for the Flying 15 fleet, followed by 
the Lasers at “7”, cats at “9”, asymmetrics at “11” and “13” 
for the All-comers fleet.
The trial is working well, so racing committee, supported by Council, has decided to extend the trial 
until at least the end of March, and also to trial it for the first three races of the Wednesday evening 
series.
For racers, all you need to know is:
1.  There’s an orange flag displayed, with multiple hoots, one minute before the sequence starts.
2.  The sequence commences when “0” is displayed with a hoot.
3.  On each subsequent minute the number changes up by one and there’s a hoot.
4.  Each fleet uses the standard 5-4-1-Go start sequence as per the Racing Rules of Sailing.
5.  Starts are at two-minute intervals, rather than the previous three-minute intervals.
6.  The number displayed for your “warning” (i.e. five minute) is “0” for the Flying15s, “2” for the 
Lasers, “4” for the cats etc.
7.  If you’re over the start line at the start, the Race Officer will signal an individual recall (using the 
“X” flag) and you have to dip back across the line, or they’ll signal a general recall (using the 
“First sub” flag) and your fleet will start two minutes after the last start, under a black flag.
8.  Full sailing instructions are available by the signing-on sheets.

Surely there has to be a simpler system for a "compact" five start sequence?
-_
Al
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Posts: 301 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 14 at 10:43pm
If the hoot sequence and number displays are not automated, then it cold be a recipe for chaos!

We have a six class start sequence but have binned 541go in favour of simple 4 main warning then 2 min then go. Class flag flies at 2 min intervals with blue peter flown all the way through. Generally works but get occasional blips when a class does not turn out.
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Posts: 301 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 14 at 10:51pm
As a ps, I should add that the starting sequence hooter is automatically controlled while the flag hoists are manual but rather feel that most people go on the hooter rather than the flags coming down.
Merlin Rocket 3609
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 8:03am
Why not just have a great big digital clock rather than once a minute number changes (are they manual or automatic?).


Chew uses three minute intervals, in a similar manner to Time Lords two minute method, for four starts - Handicap, Flying 15, Laser, Solo. I would be concerned that with two minute spacing the Lasers will be sat on the line at the previous start! I also think the Grafham sequence of classes is a bit strange. Why not, for example, start the cats first so they don't have a melee of closely packed slow boats to work their way through? Or last, so they can charge the line without other boats in the way.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 8:20am
It appears Frensham leads the way again.

For decades we've had a programmed start box machine. Tell it how many races and time of first signal and off it goes, sounding horns and lighting lights with no further intervention. As boats cross the finish line, touch a button and it captures their time.

This used to be a custom made thing but a while back was migrated to a PC with the lights running off a serial interface.

Respect to Brian Cushing (RiP) for the original and Bob Castle and Roger Gilbert (yes, the Roger Gilbert) for the latter.

Works perfectly, no confusion possible and human error pretty much eliminated

It even does pursuit races at the click of a button too

Buckets?? I'm flabbergasted
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Telltale View Drop Down
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 8:34am
Its all very well getting multiple fleets away on time and at close intervals, however, at our club we don't have a PC or a "magic box", just good old pencil and paper with a watch. So how does he RO deal with finishes? Don't you get a raft of dinghies flooding through at 45 mins?
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 8:37am

The bucket sequence was, from memory:

0 min: Blue Bucket up
3 min: Yellow Bucket up, Blue down
6 min: Yellow Down, Red Up, FF15 start
8:30min: Red Down
9min: Red Up, Laser Start
11:30: Red down
12: Red up, "all comers" start
14:30: red down
15: red up, cat start
17:30: red down
18: Red up, Assymetric handicap start
 
To make matters worse, most of the time when I've been there the "all comers" (symetric kites, single sail, two sail double handers, foilers) has often been non-existant- but the sequence was inflexible.
 
The order is odd- especially as with the cats, the bulk of the fleet are Sprint 15s, so are slower than quite a lot of the assymetric fleet.
-_
Al
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Dougal View Drop Down
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Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 9:34am
I must admit I looked at it and thought it was a good and simple idea.  All you need to know is what minute you start on.  I know technically it is 5 4 1, but in practice if you are starting on 7 you start your watch on 0, hover near the line until the first start goes and then you have 2 mins to get yourself in position.  Assuming fleets aren't huge/lines too short then for a club race that is not an issue.  I take the point on fleet order, but that could easily be fixed.
What could possibly go wrong?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 9:51am
We run 4-2-go with starts at 2min intervals and the P staying up. 5-4-1-go seems impractical for club racing.
I liked the flag system they have at Loch Lomond which is each flag permanently attached to a pole and an array of sockets so flags are hoisted by placing stick in socket
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 10:08am
I'd find it difficult to pass comment on a new starting system at my home club without trying it out at least once.
 
I used the new (trial) starting system at Grafham every Sunday during the month of January, and have to say that it's a massive improvement, well defined and clearly displayed.
 
Getting 5 disparate fleets away in 13 minutes is acceptable, in my opinion, with each fleet having a 5, 4, 1 countdown utilising both numerical and sound signals, and 2 minutes between the fleets.
 
I understand that once the trial of the new system is complete the intention is to fully automate it.
 


Edited by sandgrounder - 04 Feb 14 at 10:09am
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