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Wave Rider View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 10:14am

Im sure most peole who regularly sail toppers will disagree.

I know for certain that me, ginger 69, Harry44981, have all sailed different boats.

Harry sail's an rs200 and im sure has sailed other boats, ginger 69 sail's a lightening 368 a topper and a fireball and has tryed loads of boats

and i sail a topper and sometimes a fireball and have tryed lightening's, moths, mirrors, laser 2000, laser 3000, 420.

And i agree they arent suited to some people but i think their great, i bet not many of the boats that you have sailed have such a brilliant race circuit all year round with opens in EVERY region regularly and great training.

And with a topper there is always competition wherever you go, everwhere has them!
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Posts: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jpbuzz591 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 11:26am
what i mean is that the topper is a great single hander for youths and lightwieght adults. Yes i understand that there are some much better boats and after sailing on the wire singlehanded i don't want to hike again. but almost everybody has sailied a topper and they have such a huge class it is unbelievable
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 12:19pm

Originally posted by Peter Rhodes

yeah they are like surfboards in all but name and are too unstable, sailing downwind is more of a balancing act than unicycle riding and they're a smod

Toppers biggest merit isn't sailing thrill- if thats the mindset you have for a 'good' boat when sailing one then your doing the topper a bit of an injustice- it is easy to sail, but still quite challenging for the intermidiate sailor to race well, the fleets are very competitve and huge!- the smod is one of its good points, everybody has more or less the same kit, so its you v the other guy/gal purely, not boat on boat aswell, which i like- personal preference really.

I have owned and sailed numerous boats: Mirror, then oppie, the national 12, then topper and rs200 at the mo., if i didn't like the topper then i wouldn't sail it, the same with everyone else in the 250 strong national fleet. What other boat offers such accesable sailing from begginers going for their first sail to national chapions, from 30-70kg, 10-100 years old?

I dont know where you're getting that balancing act thing from- if you know how to sail it's easy in all but a gale. But the unstability at times is what provides the fun, making it faster, more popular, and much more fun than say...... the mirror?
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Peter Rhodes View Drop Down
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Posts: 171 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 1:12pm

the way in a topper you have to hike with your calves on the inside of the side deck is really painful. they are easily swamped by there low freeboard and the smod idea means that there is no choice of kit or boat set up other than that sanctioned by the manufacturer so half the skill of sailing fast (choosing the boat set up and choice of equipment) is not tested. I just don't like them
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 1:49pm
New changes, may alter that a little, you can have whatever length toestrp you want now, and there are a few options eg: centre to aft main, standard conrtolls to race rig etc. I would catagorize sailing fast as actually sailng, not choosing rig ser up, if you can't sail with what your given against somebody else, then they are obviously better than you.
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KnightMare View Drop Down
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 6:55pm

yeh I think that you definatly shoudl be teachign kids to constantly think about the kit they are using, I know 14 yr old kids that work with the sail makers to have just the right sail design (admitidly it is their sponsor). you cant just give some one a boat and say go sail it, what happens when you change to another class,

personaly I cant stand the topper A as a boat and B as a training fleet (I am slightly biased but who cares) the way that the kids are being pushed throught the fleets but the RYA is so stupid, But each boat does have its own merits and the topper is a good boat to be able to stick begginers in and not worry about the costs if they go wrong, but I honnestly think that the only good thing about its abilty to teach racing is the number of people who race them.

Originally posted by Harry44981!

I would catagorize sailing fast as actually sailng,
so sailing slow isnt sailing?? - how does sailing a topper count as actually sailing then?
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 7:15pm

i was repliying to peter rhodes' comment that half of fast sailing is rig set up, which fair point helps you sail fast,- but I'd say that sailing fast was more down to actually how you sail the boat than the boat itself. Anyway sailing ear the boats potential max. speed is sailing fast, just not in comparison to the faster end of the dinghy market.

Wrong end of the stick!
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KnightMare View Drop Down
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 7:24pm
rite ok but still, I agree with peter that half of sailing is boat set up, do you know how much time the top sailors put inot boat (rig) setup. Sailing the boat is half the story, and if you are lucky enough to be one of the top sailors who can getinto anythign and win then you are damn lucky but most peopl eneed to put time and effort into getting the boat set up correctly for the conditions etc. Its half the skill to good boat handling is having it set up correctly.
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 7:31pm

Originally posted by KnightMare

rite ok but still, I agree with peter that half of sailing is boat set up, do you know how much time the top sailors put inot boat (rig) setup. Sailing the boat is half the story, and if you are lucky enough to be one of the top sailors who can getinto anythign and win then you are damn lucky but most peopl eneed to put time and effort into getting the boat set up correctly for the conditions etc. Its half the skill to good boat handling is having it set up correctly.

Yeah i probably don't appreciate that much coming from toppers, and the 200 is also one design
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KnightMare View Drop Down
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 05 at 7:54pm

yeh the 200 is one design,  but you get different levels of 'one design'ness it can be with in these limits or this specific design. you still have room to adjust things on a loose one design class its things like smods that its 'all' sailing ability (very wary about saying that)

I supose it does depend on the class a lot as to how you sail the boat and how much the racing is dependant on differnet things, some classes th start is the most important thing, others speed is important, others pointing etc. you just have to know that class and be inline with what is needed.
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