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KennyR
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Topic: Why is this fast? Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 12:57pm |
It's all quite simple. It develops flow over the main. If the mast is upright or raked back the rig can only develop stalled 'drag' forces, but by raking the mast forward, the air can escape upwards and thus develop flow across the sail. Bethwaite talks about 'roll over vortexes' that work their way up the lee side of a poled out jib, drawing air across it and helping to develop further flow across the main. Personally we have found that when you get the mast well forward and hoist the jib up, there is enough slack in the forestay to start making the jib behave a bit like a spinnaker. Either way it is waaay faster to have the rig forward than not. If you look at the fundamentals of a Star rig, you can appreciate how important this is. For a start the chainplates for the upper shrouds are ahead of the mast, so that as the rig goes forward, the shrounds loosen and the bend comes out of the mast. Also the mast heel is free to move in Derlin or rollers, so that once the mast has hit the front end of the mast gate, the heel can slide back 1"-2" for a bit more forward rake. Thirdly the spreaders are free to swing forwards, so that the leeward shorunds and spreaders do not cut into the main and spoil the sail shape. It is generally best to have the rig max forward in the light [helps keep the boom out too], so that the mast tip is almost over the bow, with a slight inversion in the mast to develop am even better flow and the crew lying on the deck as far forward as he can go [hanging onto the forstay with one hand], and enough heel to keep the tiller neutral. As the breeze comes on everything starts coming back not only to keep the mast in the boat, but to make it controlable [think laser with no kicker downwind]. Have a look at http://www.quantumsails.com/products/onedesign/cni.asp?NID=1 1&CID=5 Mark Reynolds gen on it. Also have a look at http://www.stargear.net/articles/torbenjibe.html for how the top guys gybe with the rig forward and the crew on the foredeck. As for high performance boats - i'll bet there's not a lot quicker than the Star in the light stuff dead downwind, and until the apparent comes up enough for a boat to plane the fundamentals still apply. Stars plane too you know! Yes - the masts are fragile, but that is the nature of the boat. It's pretty easy to sail with the rig back and the mast will be fairly safe[ excluding gear breakages etc]. But let it forward if you want to win. Likewise it would be dead easy to make a bigger heavier section with fixed spreaders that was really damage tolerant, but like all racing equipment you have to push the design limits to go faster and if you have ever seen a Star mast in the flesh you'll know just how much of a noodle it is. Keeping the rig in the boat is all part of the sailing stars. It might seem an odd boat to much of the UK but the worlds best sailors along with around 3000 active boats worldwide can't all be wrong! Bear in mind no-one has retained a Star Worlds in over 20 years, which does say something about the top level in the class.
Kenny - Star 7665
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Stefan Lloyd
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 12:59pm |
Originally posted by Guest#260
No doubt it is fast as all the Star guys do it - I was just wondering if this translated to other classes - e.g. Taser or N12. |
Merlins will certainly knock off shroud tension downwind in order to both straighten the mast and rake it forwards. I can't speak for N12s or Tasers. Not sure if the latter have the control systems to make it work.
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Stefan Lloyd
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 1:05pm |
For heaven's sake Kenny, if people who know what they are talking about butt in, it will ruin the whole forum.
Seriously, very interesting, thanks.
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furtive
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 1:20pm |
If you look closely at the first pic in this thread, you can see the top telltale on the mainsail leech flying almost vertically (as we look at it). This would support the idea of getting air to flow up the sail by raking forward, and could also be used by the sailor to see if it's actually working.
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far canal
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Joined: 01 Feb 06
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 1:37pm |
tasars can and do
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Pierre
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 1:46pm |
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd
For heaven's sake Kenny, if people who know what they are talking about butt in, it will ruin the whole forum.
Seriously, very interesting, thanks.
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Quite so Stefan. What is this forum coming to ? 
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CT249
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Joined: 08 Jul 06
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 1:57pm |
Thanks Kenny  .
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Prince Buster
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 2:26pm |
Originally posted by KennyR
It's all quite simple. It develops flow over the
main. If the mast is upright or raked back the rig can only develop
stalled 'drag' forces, but by raking the mast forward, the air can
escape upwards and thus develop flow across the sail. Bethwaite talks
about 'roll over vortexes' that work their way up the lee side of a
poled out jib, drawing air across it and helping to develop further
flow across the main. Personally we have found that when you get the
mast well forward and hoist the jib up, there is enough slack in the
forestay to start making the jib behave a bit like a spinnaker.
Either way it is waaay faster to have the rig forward than not. If
you look at the fundamentals of a Star rig, you can appreciate how
important this is. For a start the chainplates for the upper shrouds
are ahead of the mast, so that as the rig goes forward, the shrounds
loosen and the bend comes out of the mast. Also the mast heel is free
to move in Derlin or rollers, so that once the mast has hit the front
end of the mast gate, the heel can slide back 1"-2" for a bit more
forward rake. Thirdly the spreaders are free to swing forwards, so that
the leeward shorunds and spreaders do not cut into the main and spoil
the sail shape. It is generally best to have the rig max forward in
the light [helps keep the boom out too], so that the mast tip is almost
over the bow, with a slight inversion in the mast to develop am even
better flow and the crew lying on the deck as far forward as he can go
[hanging onto the forstay with one hand], and enough heel to keep the
tiller neutral. As the breeze comes on everything starts coming back
not only to keep the mast in the boat, but to make it controlable
[think laser with no kicker downwind]. Have a look at http://www.quantumsails.com/products/onedesign/cni.asp?NID=1 1&CID=5 Mark Reynolds gen on it. Also have a look at http://www.stargear.net/articles/torbenjibe.html for how the top guys gybe with the rig forward and the crew on the foredeck. As
for high performance boats - i'll bet there's not a lot quicker than
the Star in the light stuff dead downwind, and until the apparent comes
up enough for a boat to plane the fundamentals still apply. Stars plane
too you know! Yes - the masts are fragile, but that is the nature of
the boat. It's pretty easy to sail with the rig back and the mast will
be fairly safe[ excluding gear breakages etc]. But let it forward if
you want to win. Likewise it would be dead easy to make a bigger
heavier section with fixed spreaders that was really damage tolerant,
but like all racing equipment you have to push the design limits to go
faster and if you have ever seen a Star mast in the flesh you'll know
just how much of a noodle it is. Keeping the rig in the boat is all
part of the sailing stars. It might seem an odd boat to much of the UK
but the worlds best sailors along with around 3000 active boats
worldwide can't all be wrong! Bear in mind no-one has retained a Star
Worlds in over 20 years, which does say something about the top level
in the class.
Kenny - Star 7665 |
yeah, i go with what he said......
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international moth - "what what?"
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Skiffe
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Posted: 04 Sep 06 at 2:55pm |
It might be fast, but does it look good.
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12footers. The Only Way to FLY
Remember Professionals built the titanic, Amateurs built the ark.
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