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Blaze or Phantom?
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Barrowboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 5:47pm
Hello

I'm in the process of deciding which 'performance' dinghy to buy and wondered whether the forum would be willing to share their knowledge and experience with someone new to dinghy ownership/sailing.

I have trawled the net and decided that my choice is between a Blaze or a Phantom.

Points I've considered include:

I weigh approx 100kgs
I'm 50 years old/young (depending on the previous nights alcohol consumption!)
I am happy to 'renovate' an older boat
I wish to be self-contained; not reliant upon crew availability
I would be keen to get involved in Class Association events held (say) north of the M4
I live in Liverpool and have a choice of sailing clubs within 15 miles of home

Apparent pros and cons

I've read that Phantoms can be 'uncomfortable' for a senior to sail, particularly downwind, and that to be competitive, I need to be prepared to have my chequebook open on a regular basis to cope with the developments in the class. Put simply, a ten year old boat will not be competitive.

There are a lot of them about however and finding a couple to race against in club events won't be a problem.

Alternatively, it appears that a Blaze is a Blaze, is a Blaze. As I understand it, the hull is from the same mould today as the first boats. Theoretically, therefore, it should be possible to obtain an older boat, clean, polish, attend to any gelcoat scratches (learn how to sail it) and then gradually upgrade (spars, sail, wings, etc) without finding that the class has moved forward with new developments whilst I've been fettling the boat/learning to sail it!

I'm aware that there are not so many of them registered with clubs 'up north' but there appears to be a healthy Class Association organising events nationwide including places such as North Wales, Lancashire, etc.

I should stress that I'm not in the market for a new boat; I like to have a project on the go and renovating an older boat is part of the appeal for me.

Any input before I visit the show at the Ally Pally would be gratefully received.

Thank you in advance

Tony

 
 

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tomoore1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tomoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 6:01pm
Not sure whether you have considered an RS300.  Very similar in performance to both the boats you have mentioned and even though they take a bit of getting used to they are really rewarding to sail.  Old boats are as fast as the new and they can be picked up for a good price.
 
Sorry but I can't offer comment on either the blaze or phantom but if you like the sound of a 300 your more than welcome to try mine (based in N.Wales) over easter some time.
 
Tom
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bert View Drop Down
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Posts: 584 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Barrowboy

Hello


I have trawled the net and decided that my choice is between a Blaze or a Phantom.
Both of which will carry your weight well
Points I've considered include:

I weigh approx 100kgs - right for the phantom but sailors both sides of that weight do well & a little heavy for the blaze but heaver sailors also do well.
I'm 50 years old/young (depending on the previous nights alcohol consumption!) normal, so not a problem both boats will allow mistakes due to dullness of reflexs but proberly the blaze will allow more.
Apparent pros and cons

I've read that Phantoms can be 'uncomfortable' for a senior to sail, particularly downwind, No better or worse then the blaze both require you to be in roughtly the same position in the boat in the same conditions and that to be competitive, I need to be prepared to have my chequebook open on a regular basis to cope with the developments in the class. No nether class moves that quick Put simply, a ten year old boat will not be competitive.
True a ten year old boat may not be at the front but there is NO requirment for it to be at the back either!
There are a lot of them about however and finding a couple to race against in club events won't be a problem.
true
Alternatively, it appears that a Blaze is a Blaze, is a Blaze. As I understand it, the hull is from the same mould today as the first boats. Theoretically, therefore, it should be possible to obtain an older boat, clean, polish, attend to any gelcoat scratches (learn how to sail it) and then gradually upgrade (spars, sail, wings, etc) without finding that the class has moved forward with new developments whilst I've been fettling the boat/learning to sail it!
Completly true but the blaze isn`t any kinder the the older & slighly rotund gent then the phantom. 
I'm aware that there are not so many of them registered with clubs 'up north' but there appears to be a healthy Class Association organising events nationwide including places such as North Wales, Lancashire, etc. true of both class`s
 
Thank you in advance

Tony


 
 
"Not sure whether you have considered an RS300.  Very similar in performance to both the boats you have mentioned and even though they take a bit of getting used to they are really rewarding to sail.  Old boats are as fast as the new and they can be picked up for a good price.
Older boats are as fast as the new boats but are very differcult to get hold of due to supply & demand,Also great fun to sail but quite differcult to master for a sailor new to dinghy ownership / sailing but worth a go. 
 
Sorry but I can't offer comment on either the blaze or phantom but if you like the sound of a 300 your more than welcome to try mine (based in N.Wales) over easter some time.Drop tom an PM & arrange a test sail it will be fun,nothing ventured nothing gained.
 
Tom"
 
The main thing is to try before you buy if possible.
I own both a blaze & a phantom at the moment.
 
I hope this helps


Edited by bert - 18 Feb 11 at 6:38pm
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 8:27pm
I dunno, ask a very specific question about bath tubs and get offered advice about toilet seats.

So I can talk a bit about the Blaze and my very good pal still sails an older pre Epoxy revolution Phantom.

There are blokes on here who can bore for England about both and they'll be along in no time.

I'm not very heavy so the choice was Blaze no question, my pal weighs about the same as you and I don't think there's much between the boats in terms of sailing skill required to use them although I did seem to spend more time upright than he did in the early days.

There are differences in Blazes, the early ones have narrow metal racks and full batten sails, they changed the sail to a soft batten rig which made them a tad easier to sail, all you need to know is on their website, but you are correct in the assumption once the rig is changed they are competitive with each other.

I actually think a Blaze is a better all rounder than a Phantom, they're big boats, they don't fall over when you let them go, there's lots of volume so they are quite capable of supporting heavy weights and the guy that bought mine off me who is also a tad portly but atheletic and a good boat handler with it hasn't looked back since he bought it.

So my vote is clearly the Blaze, plus there's a bunch of them over Wales way, Wales is near Liverpool isn't it? Well they're North of Watford anyway.

Buy a Blaze no-one I know who has, has ever been sorry and the worse days work i ever did was sell mine.

Oh, the only thing you might need is a set of those lame hiker thinghies, the racks can get a bit point loadey sore after a while, then again you could always tack, especially if the suns gone the wrong side of the sail..


Edited by G.R.F. - 18 Feb 11 at 8:30pm
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 9:14pm
At 100kg have you conscidered buying an old blaze and then perhaps adding a Halo rig - Cirus designed that rig specifically for the fuller gentleman.


Edited by Neptune - 18 Feb 11 at 9:16pm
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 10:35pm
Recently faced the same choice and ended up with a used (albeit Epoxy) Phantom.

Both are good boats and the only sure way of knowing what suits you is to sail one.

One big factor for me was suitability for inland sailing ie. good in the lighter stuff and very manoeurvable. Although the rigs are similar sized, the Phantom has less wetted surface area and has a hull shape that allows it to tack very quickly and accelerate back up to speed. The downside is that you do need to hike harder when the breeze is up (although at your weight, which is just a bit more than me that should be no problem).

The Blaze, by it's own admission by the class is not so good in the light stuff (Force 2 is considered it's least competitive wind strength), whereas force 4/5 is where it really starts to get going. The racks obviously allow you to get more power out of the rig in the stronger winds, however you do need to scramble back in off the racks in the type of lulls you get inland.
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 11:14pm
Tony,
as you may see from my sig at the bottom, I sail a Phantom. I have also had a RS300 in my time and enjoyed it immensely (probably the most of all I've owned), however at about 100 kgs I personally would go for a Phantom, at least you might be able to buy one.

The Phantom goes exceedingly well in a force 2-3 and only really becomes a struggle in a 5 or above. that said you will feel it in a four too. I've sailed against a very good blaze sailor at Chew Valley and he stood no chance against the Phantom in the lighter winds and likewise we stood no chance in the heavier, so its horses for courses there. Decide which is the wind strength you are most likely to sail in. The Phantom is not that uncomfortable in lighter stuff, no more so than a 300, in fact I spend less time knelt down in the Phantom than I ever did in the 300. It should be said that while you may not perform to PY in the Phantom in heavy stuff it is a very stable boat with the flat aft hull sections and provides a fairly easy ride downwind.

As for the chequebook open comment, I feel that you have been misguided. Epoxy boats are about 6-7 years old (sail number 1100+ and plastic are epoxy) and will not be uncompetitive. These are starting about the £4-4.5k mark now so may be within your price range. Polyester boats vary and some are fairly competitive, especially at club level where you may get labelled a PY bandit whatever you do.   

As has been said before see if you can try them both out, they both have their merits and will provide you with fun at different times. All I can say I wish you luck in your decision and hope you pick the right one for you.

Maxib
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AlexM View Drop Down
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Posts: 857 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Tony,
as you may see from my sig at the bottom, I sail a Phantom. I have also had a RS300 in my time and enjoyed it immensely (probably the most of all I've owned), however at about 100 kgs I personally would go for a Phantom, at least you might be able to buy one.

The Phantom goes exceedingly well in a force 2-3 and only really becomes a struggle in a 5 or above. that said you will feel it in a four too. I've sailed against a very good blaze sailor at Chew Valley and he stood no chance against the Phantom in the lighter winds and likewise we stood no chance in the heavier, so its horses for courses there. Decide which is the wind strength you are most likely to sail in. The Phantom is not that uncomfortable in lighter stuff, no more so than a 300, in fact I spend less time knelt down in the Phantom than I ever did in the 300. It should be said that while you may not perform to PY in the Phantom in heavy stuff it is a very stable boat with the flat aft hull sections and provides a fairly easy ride downwind.

As for the chequebook open comment, I feel that you have been misguided. Epoxy boats are about 6-7 years old (sail number 1100+ and plastic are epoxy) and will not be uncompetitive. These are starting about the £4-4.5k mark now so may be within your price range. Polyester boats vary and some are fairly competitive, especially at club level where you may get labelled a PY bandit whatever you do.   

As has been said before see if you can try them both out, they both have their merits and will provide you with fun at different times. All I can say I wish you luck in your decision and hope you pick the right one for you.

Maxib
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Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dogs life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 11 at 11:33pm
must be a RS 300, had a quick sail in one a couple of weeks ago, sooooo much better than a Merlin. Matt
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Posts: 62 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crosby mafia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 11 at 12:28am
 Tony,  I presume it was yourself who telephone Crosby SC the other day.  If you are thinking about going to the dinghy show, the club will be going there in a mini bus. If you want to go with a gang give us a shout. We may have a few spaces left in the bus.

Ian
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