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Racing Sailboards v Racing Sailboats

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Between us we've got more
National Titles than you can shake a stick at...


Yeah but back in those days windsurfing was a very young sport; the
early adopter who could get around without dropping the rig all the time
won easily


I came down to watch the Windsurfer Nationals at your club; probably
about 1985 with a view to perhaps having a bash at windsurfing racing as
it was just starting of ... during the "racing" it was almost impossible to
tell that a race was taking place, boards all over the place. I think Dee
Caldwell or Stuart Sawyer won ... it didn't resemble anything I recognised
as fleet racing at that time; I am sure people got better at it over
time.


Then when the Div 2 stuff was the in thing we had a few events at
WYC, seems like the one or two blokes who had the Turbos or M1's that
no-one else had won easy ... they just had boards no-one else had been
able to get.


Originally posted by G.R.F.

...and we've sailed by far the most competitive one
design fleet there ever was


I never realised you'd been sailing Lasers before ...



So one girls perception.

But that's not what it was like.

Windsurfing was a 'young' sport in 1976, by 1985 it had become pretty
diverse in much the same way Dinghes are nowadays, but back in the
beginning, when there was nothing else to do but course race, when
windsurfing was run by the sailing and dinghy fraternity of the period,
when Racing Sailboats was a shop in Battersea Park Road and the London
Dinghy Centre were in Hither Green, the level of competition for the
hearts and minds of the fastest growing class/watersport the world had
ever seen, I can assure you was far more intense than anything sailing
lasers threw up.

I could tell tales of 500 board start lines, of team tactics that included
every dirty trick you can imagine and more besides of huge commercial
rewards for sail & board makers if they won.

It was another time and back then I was another person, but the fact
remains whatever it takes to win a dinghy event, it takes the same to win
on a sailboard.

The principle difference? You learn to 'sense' the wind from the feel in the
rig and your ears, no tac tic, no compass just hours of practise to gain
experience.
You do everything else a boat helm might do, practice for hours
rounding marks, dial your lay lines, practice start after start, read every
book going, get to be totally at one with your craft, learn to sail it as fast
as the next man and faster than others. Train to be super fit, fit enough
to pump 4 hours non stop for example fit enough before 1979 to race
three races a day with mile beats with no harness, which would be like
hanging onto the wire without a hook .

Back then, Dinghy Racing generally was much much bigger than it is
these days, lots of classes had large fleets, top helms from all manner of
dinghy class came to try their hand but not many of them were fit enough
to cope with the sports 'manual' nature, it was only when the harness was
permitted in 1980 that a few of them managed to stand the pace when it
got a bit windy.

The heady days were 78 thru 82, by 83 the so called 'funboard revolution
broke and other forms of competition took over so the intensity of the
regatta/course race circuit decreased and Pro circuits came about and
short board sailing took a hold offering multi option competition, waves,
slalom etc.

But even so the UKBSA retained a membership of 2000+ and still had
start lines numbering in their hundreds even with the fleet split into
weight group related starts which came about again in the early 80's they
retained this membership level well into the nineties and really only fell
into decline when they left the rig size open and Formula Boards with
minimum wind limits saw increasing none events.

So wether you like it or not, my experience has always been that of
certain superiority of the sailboard helm over the dinghy helm since most
of these 'insurgents' used to be parachuted in to 'big' events with brand
new kit and full sponsorship, only to get sent packing..

So does that explain the arrogance?

Now that may have all changed now, it's probably true that it is
more difficult to race an MPS than say a Raceboard, but the factors that
define wether you win or lose, still remain the same for both.

Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 10:30pm
I feel enlightened as to your background and am quite happy you've put
what you have. Though as for arrogance, is humility not the most virtuous
of personality traits?
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 10:38pm
Humility may well be a virtuous character trait, and possibly in real life
nowadays I might even possess it in small measure depending on the
circumstance.

But sadly it's not a trait that wins regattas or forum arguments in my bitter
experience.

Especially when faced with a six fingered MPS mutant..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smight at BBSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Humility may well be a virtuous character trait, and possibly in real life
nowadays I might even possess it in small measure depending on the
circumstance.

But sadly it's not a trait that wins regattas or forum arguments in my bitter
experience.

Especially when faced with a six fingered MPS mutant..


It's funny because we still havn't seen you win win any regattas?
RS600 988
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Humility may well be a virtuous character trait, and
possibly in real life
nowadays I might even possess it in small measure depending on the
circumstance.

But sadly it's not a trait that wins regattas or forum arguments in my
bitter
experience.

Especially when faced with a six fingered MPS mutant..



   I hope you'll be at the dinghy show when it comes round. I'll
know who you are when I see a man mocking the MPS as he walks past.
You'll know who I am as you see some young guy laugh hysterically as he
walks past a representative from Hyde's for daring to call themselves a
sail Designer / Maker.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 11:02pm

Grumps,

It must have been great to have been part of the windsurfing fad, I am sure there are lots of things that we can learn from other sports; if you could just drop the "we're better than you stuff" then your input would be so much easier to digest.

You may be a good windsurfer but that dosn't mean you'll automatically be a good dinghy sailor just as some of the dinghy sailors who dabbled with windsurfers failed.

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 08 at 11:50pm
Nah, that would be no fun at all.

Let y'all take yourselves seriously?

Sorry, no chance.

I prefer it this way.

Heaven help y'all if I do go win something sitting down

Better get your prayer mats out, pray it never happens...

And talking of fads, that fad lasted a lot longer than the one your riding
is ever likely to.

Oh and just to underline that, I sell a One Design Single hander, it's only
been around two or three years, not that big here yet, but registered
helms worldwide?
Over 1000.
Annual Sales here 50 units p.a last two years, fad it may be but it's still a
bigger fad than Musto Riding.

Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 08 at 9:15am

Originally posted by G.R.F.


Heaven help y'all if I do go win something sitting down

Go on then show us what you can do ... borrow an RS200 or Laser Radial, they should suit your stature and are fairly easy to handle; winning is all in the stratergy & tactics ... enter the nationals and show us your skill.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 08 at 9:22am
Grumpft, there are so many flaws in your argument it would take me all day to point them out....

But I think your most major crime is confusing quantity with quality.  So what if there were 100s of people on your start line - 100s of them may well have been crap!

With regard to the training/reading/mile long beats stuff, well I did all that too - in the Olympic classes, but the quality there was such that it was rare to ever win anything even though numbers on the start line were really quite small.

What you're saying is that you trained for ages, read loads, got fit etc and then beat some dinghy sailors who hadn't done all that stuff - no surprise there really is there?  But who's to say that had some of them done all the training you did, they would not have kicked your ass?

I think we all know that in any sport/activity, success comes from 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration - I guess you just sweated more than most!

(as did I, but I don't brag about it )

Lots of love

XXX
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 08 at 10:26am
Well only 1/3rd of any start line get any chance if the truth were known,
but that wasn't my point, the point was that sailing a board isn't any
different from sailing a boat.

The only thing that differs is the 'handling' mechanics.

The rest is identical.

Naturally in any 'banter' environment (note this thread is in the banter
section) we are each going to proclaim the superiority of our chosen
class, I can't even remember what prompted me to post this in any event,
probably because I got wound up elsewhere.

Now the truth is I'm way past the age that I'd want, need, or am remotely
interested in, 'proving' myself to anyone, so going on a campaign to do
that is very very unlikely. It was pointing that out elsewhere to illustrate
what different folk want from their sailing that bought this cafuffle and
apparent 'bragging' about.

I happen to believe that 'back then' dinghy or sailboard it was more
difficult to consistently succeed than it is in a lot of classes that exist
today, it's an opinion, I was there back then, a lot of you were not and
since we don't have access to a time machine it can never be proven.

Fundamentally though if I'm on any crusade at all, it's that if someone
with my skills, past history, struggles to sail what's on offer, then there is
little hope for the rest of the world and if there is to be a better future,
something needs to alter before its too late.

Now as to having my ass kicked, it happens fairly regularly these days
thanks, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a time when no-one could
have come close to seeing it, never mind kicking it and that experience
remains mine to cherish. How to do it I'm always happy to pass on if
asked and use it to bolster others self confidence by ironic application in
extreme where necessary.

What does wind me up though is that in order to have any credibility
placed in ones opinion it is necessary to be a front runner, when in reality
the folk who create the majority of the market are us beginners to mid
fleet types, yet our views are ignored, by the charge being lead from the
front as the demand for ever increasingly unstable craft bolster other
fragile egos in the pursuit of what?

Light wind boatspeed?

Certainly nothing I recognize as the real joy of sailing.

Tearing down a windy reach up and down and in and out of the troughs
with twenty odd knots up your backside and your mortal foe in hot
pursuit..

Board Boat it matters not, it's just the joy of the chase, I'm here to glean
all your experiences and learn from them and like I said I'm happy enough
to pass on mine if you want to hear them, you just have to accept i'm
much older than most of y'all and with that comes a collection of more
experience and if that comes across as arrogance well so be it..

Us Old Folk have earned the right..
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