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RYA Membership - What are the Benefits?
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RYA Membership - What are the Benefits?
    Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 4:47pm
As a comparison from the other side of the channel...

-The France Federation Voile licence is compulsory on top of club membership
-it's 44 euros
-you need a yearly medical to go racing
-it gives 3rd party insurance

I think the RYA is sensible to keep it voluntary - while the french like official bits of paper and things being centralised (cutural generalisation yes - but with a fair bit of truth... ) I suspect compulsory membership would have an adverse effect on the RYAs image.

And it may be the image the RYA puts out that's the problem as a quick scoot around the dinghy sections of their website (and the magazine) look more like an ad for youth/olympic classes (as does the ISAF site).  If the RYA really want to represent UK dinghy sailing properly then they need something at least as comprehensive as the Y&Y site!

I can appreciate the other points that winging it raised as reasons to join - but the sense that a chunk of this money goes into channeling kids into a very narrow range of classes bothers me. The impression I get from my time abroad where in most places youth classes are almost the only option is that it doesn't encourage longtime participation in the sport and does drive a wedge between club and youth sailing (a la Pete Vincents article in a-nother sailing magazine...).
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Posts: 988 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 1:29pm

The classes I am involved with do not like to use RYA Squad sailors as I think the RYA thinks "They should be sailing". Hence why the UKLA training which I run in Lasers uses people like Ben Paton (World Champion), Mark Powell (National Champion)... The RYA Laser training does not.

I am not saying which every coach needs to have a specialst knowledge (I work will all sorts of classes) just it is good to use specialised coachs! (as opposed to not using them).

Also regards the Instructor/Coach thought I think the best example of this is:

My (unfortunately ex) girlfriend was a perfect instructor. Pretty, blond, small and in her early twenties. All the kids wanted to go in her boat and hold hands with her afterwards. They really looked forward to going on the water. I could never imagine the children reacting like that to me. In terms of sailing she put up her first spinnaker this summer!

Me, I can only work with people with drive and determination. It may only be to win their club race or it maybe to secure an Olympic spot but they need to be dedicated, otherwise I just feel I am wasting my time. I am happy to jump in pretty much any boat and race against the people I coach knowing I will not embarass myself...

An SI (who is not a coach) I believe falls into the instructor catagory but just with a higher level of experience.

 
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Interestingly the RYA do not use coaches from inside a class, which I believe is a huge error!

Not sure about that. A few years ago when I had a 707, the class used Cathy Foster to run a coaching session. While she didn't know much about the class, she was very successful in bringing out the class-specific "how-tos" from the class hot-shots present in the session. She clearly had a framework and approach towards doing so, and it worked very well. This assumes that the front-end of the class are prepared to participate in such a session, which may not always be true.



I agree with Stefan - a coach can't always have specialist knowledge of the class they are coaching, but they can use well developed interpersonal skills to bring out the knowledge from the faster sailors within their group, or indeed run exercises that may do so.  This works particularly well at club level, especially when you may be working with a handicap fleet.

When I did my coaching cert there was a good emphasis on letting the sailors themselves examine their own errors and then guiding them, through questioning and analysis, to identify their weaknesses and how they can be resolved or rectified.  And of course, the good coach will highlight the strengths too and build on them.  I do think the best coaches are there to help the sailors coach themselves, if you see what I mean.  A voice from outside the boat and ideally video, can facilitate this, but a coach can only do so much.

I would agree that much higher up the scale specialist 'insider' knowledge is invaluable, but unfortunately not all top sailors choose to go into coaching when they retire and at the highest level sailors still within the fleet understandably want to keep their speed secrets to themslves!
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Posts: 539 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 11:31am
Originally posted by foaminatthedeck

I don't have a problem in handing out certificates if some thing has been achieved then its a nice thing to give in recognition of that. I feel that there is no longer any high level within the current scheme.



I think it may depend where you teach - I have no problem with handing out certificates, but I work at a sailing centre in the summer and many people there turn up each year for the next course up with no practice in between. That's not such an issue for stage 1/2/3 but after that people turn up who are clearly not at a stage to complete a course such as seamanship - the first drill I normally run over on any course is how to tack a centre mainsheet boat, and a worrying number of people find it entirely new (/had forgotten). Not a problem, they'll still normally make plenty of progress but when other people are being handed certificates they sometimes feel they haven't achieved. Not sure I've explained that clearly but hopefully the point is there! I also suspect that when the course is run by a club you're less likely to have people who've only sailed once in the last year attending.
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 11:28am

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Interestingly the RYA do not use coaches from inside a class, which I believe is a huge error!

Not sure about that. A few years ago when I had a 707, the class used Cathy Foster to run a coaching session. While she didn't know much about the class, she was very successful in bringing out the class-specific "how-tos" from the class hot-shots present in the session. She clearly had a framework and approach towards doing so, and it worked very well. This assumes that the front-end of the class are prepared to participate in such a session, which may not always be true.
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 8:55am
Agreed, the SI role is about management and organisation, but it's also about safety.  How can an SI manage/supervise an instructor who may be running an advanced course or a start racing course if they have no idea what that course may involve in terms of the sailing area required, the type of boats involved, the risk factors etc?  They don't have to be a super-sailor in terms of racing, but I do think all round experience is really important.

You also need to be able to mentor your team of instructors, so I think experience of what they are teaching is fairly essential.

I totally agree with what Jon says about coaching - that's why you can be a coach without being an instructor and vice versa.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Stuart O

Originally posted by winging it



4.  They organise, fund and run the Youth Squads, the Development squads and the Olympic squads, making GB extremely successful in dinghy racing and small boat racing in international terms. 


RYA in other debates are adamant that the funding for the Olypic squads comes from lottery funding and NOT the RYA budget

But without the RYA individuals would be attempting to get lottery funding on a piecemeal basis, something that I suspect would have a high failure rate and so harm GB's representatives at the Olympics.
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 8:14am
Not being able to trapeze and fly a kite?!?!  I remember when I was a learner that the SI could be admired for their boat handling skills across the board whether it was aft main, centre main, symetrical kite or otherwise.  Its that kind of skill that would inspire people to improve and raise the bar on their abilities.
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Posts: 988 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 07 at 7:59am

I really agree, being an instructor is about being kind and caring. Introducing people to sailing in a way they will continue to sail and to show why you love the sport.

 

Being a coach is different. You need to be a top sailor in your own right and be aware of the technical skills involved. You do not necessary have to be as good as the sailor you coach (after all otherwise Ben Ainslie would never have a coach) but you do need excellent analytical and communication skills to help provide information from outside the boat to the sailor you are working with.

 

Interestingly the RYA do not use coaches from inside a class, which I believe is a huge error!
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Posts: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 07 at 10:43pm

Absolutely no requirement to trapeze of fly a kite to instruct - that's what advanced instructors are for!  Also worth noting that SI is about management and organisation rather than some higher level or pinicle of sailing.

Remember that basic instructors only teach level 1, 2 and seamanship. 

I qualified as an instructor in 1988 and while the instructor course seems to have changed the pre entry requirement is still the same.  Teaching sailing well is actually not so much about being a brillant sailor but more about empathy, being able to explain things simply, good briefs and debriefs and most important cope calmly and safely with whatever pickle your students get into.
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