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Getting wet downwind far to often

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MpHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MpHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Getting wet downwind far to often
    Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 11:03am

Had my new cherub for about a month now and seem to have got the hang of the upwind stuf, rarely binning it in (except with the obvious mega gust).  Our current problem is the downwind, the boat absolutely flies and have got to grips with the whole bearing away in gusts and heading up in the lulls to keep the power on.  The problem that i have is in the gybing, we appear to be binning it about 90% of the times we gybe in more than a force 3.

I know that this must be a technique thing and i've been advised the following two ways of gybing:

1) Head dead downwind then gybe one sail at a time jib, kite and then finally main - This has seen an improvement and manage to get through the gybe most times in a low 3 however when i flick the main and try to keep the boat downwind it seems to heel over and drop us in now matter how much i try to bear away with the rudder.

2) Gybe in a nice wide arc keeping as much speed up through the turn so that the apparent wind causes the actual wind to have less effect on the boat - Really can't get this to work, it seems to be how everyone else does it at the club but i seem to find that it ends up with the kite and main flicking at the same time and us getting very wet.

I'm sure that this is not a problem limited to the cherub as i seem to be able to bin in most asymetrics at the club (ISO's, RS400's, although surprisingly not my mates MX-Ray) if anyone has any ideas about where i'm going wrong please post and give me some hints.  Keep getting beaten on the water by a Mirror which is never good for ones street cred.

Cherub 2663 "Sweet Dreams"
RS400 451 "IceBerg"
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 1:10pm

perhaps you are not getting the weight out on the new windward side quick enough. your crew needs to out on the wire or ready to jump out when you flick the main and you need to follow quickly afterwards. the other thing is to bear away as soon as the main has gone past the centre line, this will take some sting out the gybe if you are going for the nice smooth curve which is what i would recomend.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote k_kirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 2:13pm
You need to buy a copy of the Higher & Faster DVD.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 3:56pm
is the boat capsizing to windard or leeward?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 5:28pm
You need to get into the gybe quickly if you slow down you will have problems.

Keep the main tight in no further out than the quarter. the further out it is the bigger the bang when it goes across.
Keep the boat absolutely flat through the gybe, the tall rig will steer the boat if you let it heel.

Are you going to make it to weymouth?


If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 7:44pm
As granite said, and reverse steer as the main goes across to stop the boat flying up into wind and you getting immediately flattened. As I remember I usually cleated the jib the opposite side before the gybe so it was semi sheeted afterwards, but try and do main and kite together. Its good to oversheet the kite coming into the gybe and take up the new sheet, much less chance of hourglassing. But most of all practice practice practice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MpHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 8:02pm

I'm not going to be able to make the week at Weymouth, i'm going to try to go down for the weekend before to try pick up some tips and stuff, aiming for next year if i can get the gybing sorted.

The boats capsizing to leeward, before my crew can get on the wire, just out of interest having the boom on the centre line (or just off it) do i let it out when coming out the other side or is this going to cause me more problems? 

Practice is always good just wanted to get the right idea in my head before practicing the wrong this if you get my meaning.  Thanks for the suggestions, will give these ideas a try, does anybody know of any good training routines that i can try?  Currently sailing to the top of the lake and gybing all the way back, any ideas? 

Cherub 2663 "Sweet Dreams"
RS400 451 "IceBerg"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ratface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 8:09pm
so for the spectators on the shore they must enjoy watching you go downwind

once the sails start coming over onto the new side go deeper downwind, sort yourself out(hooking on etc) when sails are on new side then head up for power while stepping out.

this has always worked for me

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 9:14pm

Main IN. It is NOT intuitive, so takes practise. Once you are planing fast, the main can be almost over the rear quarter. Gybe all the way round to the new maximum speed angle (no S curves as they are slow). Having the main IN means it has less far to swing. It also swings when the boat is almost dead down wind, so the boom crash is forwards, not sideways.

Forget the correcting S-curve, just keep turning to the new max speed angle. Keep the speed on for easy gybing. The kite must never collapse - it keeps the boat pulling forward and helps to prevent a capsize. Because you are turning to the new fast angle, you know where you need the weight - over the side!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 8:42am

Keep the boat driving fast into the gybe.  Get the crew in off the wire and go for the gybe as soon as they are nearly in the boat, if you come in and slow down too much before you commit the rig will load up and over you go.

Concentrate on getting the main over and the steering, your crew can look after the rest and it's nowhere near as important.  If you were "gybe dropping" you would gybe the boat but not the kite, so the boat is perfectly capable of sailing downwind after the gybe with the 2 front sails on the wrong side, it's won't fall over as you think it might.

Also, what might seem wierd is hugely oversheeting the kite will not make you fall over.  It's when you ease it that the power comes on.  When you have mastered gybing the main/steering, get the crew to oversheet the kite straight after the gybe, get all your stuff sorted out, hooked on, jib done etc etc then ease the kite and off you go.

Make sure you get the boom to go by pulling on the falls of the mainsheet (assuming you still have a centre main) as soon as you feel the pressure start to lessen.  Don't wait for it to come over by itself.

As soon as it does start to come over, deftly centralise or even slightly "opposite lock" the tiller, you are saying to the boat "do not turn any more than that please"...think of it as giving a dog a sharp tug on a lead if it starts pulling!

And make sure you have the right amount of kicker on, about halfway between right on and right off sould do.

As per learning to tack, look out the front and work out exactly where you should be pointing as you come out the gybe and do not let the boat head up further than this.

And go in fast and smooth in a nice wide arc, the boat must be dead flat or perhaps a little teeny bit of windward heel as you go in to help the boat turn into the gybe without the rudder, but NO leeward heel whatsoever!

And practice it, start at one end and just do 50 gybes, as soon as you have set the sails and got the boat planing again just gybe again, sometimes it can be more of a psychological thing...make it second nature.

Oh, and if you still have twin wires, just get single wire gybing absolutley nailed before you progress onto twin string gybing.

Enjoy and good luck!

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