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ifoxwell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sail settings
    Posted: 25 May 07 at 10:12am

I have a question that is relevant to all two sail boats but particularly noticeable on my canoe. Finding the sweet spot where the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. By this I mean that I can sail quite happily with both sails pulling well and going reasonably quickly but there is a sweet spot where at some point the two sails start working together and you get noticeably more power, especially in a canoe where such an easily driven hull gets an instant increase in speed.

 

So I keep playing around with sheet tension, sailing angles etc but don’t seem to be able to reliably find it.

 

How does everyone else go about finding it. What am I looking for…

 

Ian

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Noah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 07 at 10:24am

Ok you've opened the can of worms - so here's my two pennorth...

Firstly to paraphrase a well known coach "the breeze has to enter, travel across and exit the sail to generate forward motion"

On my Fireball, especiaqlly upwind, its mainly about leech tension in the mainsail, and getting the jib / main slot right. I do agree that when its right the boat just takes off. Doesn't happen very often, though.

Calibration has to be key (note to self - mark those jib sheets). Also pay close attention to the tell-tales on the jib luff & main leech.

It is all subject to so many variables that here is no simple answer. If it were easy, we'd all be Ben Ainsley

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 07 at 11:44am
Getting the slot right is a combination of many factors. The important ones as I recall are:

Jib luff tension (ensuring there is little or no sag).

Mast rake

Pre bend

Sheeting angle

Ultimately it is getting the correct sheeting angle for the mast rake to make the jib leech curve match the mainsail luff. Also the tension on the jib sheets is important. On a boat such as a canoe I dont imagine playing the jib is all that easy so it is getting the best average then playing the main (do correct me if I am wrong).

Basically calibrate everything that can be changed and note down all the settings that you can, over time you will build up a good understanding of what works and what doesn't and make finding the sweet spot less of a hit and miss affair. Some people even laminate the settings for every given wind strength and attach it to the boat.

It also helps to have sails that are cut to work together (ie dont mix and match unless you know the cuts are compatible).

I believe there are some sailmakers that float around here so they may chip in....

Paul
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ColH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 07 at 5:13pm

Sounds to me like the effect of a well-ordered slot - since its effect is to increase air speed across the main, hence increase the drive.

So: I'd be looking at having the slot (a) the right width and (b) the right width all the way up. Don't know what controls you've got, but in terms of a Fireball that would be jib sheeting in-and-out to get the width right, and up-and-down (i.e. sheeting angle in the vertical plane) to get it parallel.

On the other hand I may be talking rubbish, but that's what the theory books I've read would say....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 07 at 7:32pm

fundamentally only one way unless you have loads of experience - 2 boat tuning.  and then if you have loads of experience you can still only get close, and then you need to go 2 boat tuning.

so the answer is....  2 boat tuning.  this is another name for educated trial and error.  AC teams spend $$$$ doing this.

once you are tuned, practice.  then more practice.

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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 07 at 6:34pm
Dont the jibs and mains sheet at the same time on a canoe, like on the Swift Solo?
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 10:37am
With the canoe having a reasonably light and very efficient hull, dont try to create too much power.  It will be more about drag to power ratio rather than power to weight.  I'd opt for a flatter jib setup and really try to get a good tight leach on the main. 
I thought mark goodchild had joined wilsonian now?  surely he'd be able to give you a hand. 

Doug
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by tgruitt

Dont the jibs and mains sheet at the same time on a canoe, like on the Swift Solo?

It has been tried in the past, but abandoned, and I don't know of anyone using it now.

Personally I'm very unconvinced by the idea. I've never conme across anyone sailing two handers who consistently and routinely ease the jib level with the main all the time, and you'd think if it was fast someone would be doing it...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 07 at 8:53pm

A useful alteration is to fit leech tell tales to the jib.

According to North's and other studies on the web, the sweet spot for a fractional rig (i.e 99.9% of dinghies) is where the leeward flow of the jib combines or feeds the flow over the leeward side of the main and not so much how much it makes the main "sail in a header " by reducing the air-speed in the slot ( which is still an important function). When this combined flow is really smooth and working then the two sails give maximum power.

 

Thus a well positioned jib leech tell tale (and a window in the main if needed to see it), can mean you keep this key flow going and warns you when the slot needs to be opened, closed or when you should sail with more twist.

It's often hard to see your upper luff tell tales on the jib and while everything may look ok, and the main isn't backwinding, you are in fact detaching flow from the leeward edge at the feed/overlap area and hence sailing below optimum.

I'm having a sod learning this on the snipe which has an unusually high boom, so the very top of the jib is vital and I have no window on what's happening there!

 



Edited by damp_freddie
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