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Why can't skiffs 2 sail reach ? |
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49erGBR735HSC 
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Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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 Topic: Why can't skiffs 2 sail reach ?Posted: 19 Oct 06 at 9:20pm |
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Most of the time that theory works, although we've seen a few boats go down the mine just due to the fact that the crew or helm forgets to play the jib in the gusts.
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m_liddell
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Joined: 27 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 583 |
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Posted: 19 Oct 06 at 6:09pm |
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The crew doing the main must help a huge amount on 2 sail reaches since they can use two hands to play the mainsheet.
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 19 Oct 06 at 11:07am |
I'd expect the Tsar to be able to blow off either of those on a two sail reach, but not because of the low aspect ratio sail plan but because of the superior hull shape for fast reaching... |
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damp_freddie
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 20 Oct 05 Location: Aruba Online Status: Offline Posts: 339 |
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Posted: 18 Oct 06 at 8:27pm |
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to add to dennis#s exc. post
the rig develops so much power without being able to bear away as you would on a win/lee course. So the pressure is maintained and much more heeling moment (sideways power component) is generated, more than the boats righting lever, mostly trapeze, can handle.
Also the wind "hits" you harder- it cannot spill around you as on a DDW kite blast on an HPS boat.
Your own apparent wind exacerbates the issue as the load comes on and off more erratically as the hull and rig accelerate taking -the sea state and the gusty nature of the puffy stuff into account !
In my old tasar we could blow off a host of assyms on 2 sail reaches becuase it#s low aspect sail plan allowed easy control of the power. bye bye RS 400 or ISO |
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Blobby
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Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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Posted: 18 Oct 06 at 12:18pm |
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Since we are talking High Performance Sailing here there is a nice chart which shows the "up and ease", "aim and ease", "down and ease" transitions for balancing the boat. The actual angles will be boat and rig specific but the principles hold - and in the "aim and ease" sector you need much bigger eases since there is no change in direction to help you (also because in a gust the apparent wind moves aft too due to the change in windspeed so that makes the situation even worse). |
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One step forwards, 2 steps back...
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m_liddell
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Joined: 27 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 583 |
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Posted: 18 Oct 06 at 12:00pm |
Very interesting. This is also mentioned in 'High Performance Sailing' as a way to depower, calling it 'low drag mode'. Easing the jib so that it it is backwinding but NOT flogging means there is minimal drag and the jib so not generating much power. The jib trimmed properly generates significant power due to it not being behind a mast, so this works quite well. |
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Blobby
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Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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Posted: 18 Oct 06 at 6:35am |
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Courtesy of the Antipodean 12ft brigade who know how to sail skiffs...and who may accept that applying the same techniques to an RS800 may be successful... Skiff Rule 6 |
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One step forwards, 2 steps back...
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ssailor
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Joined: 11 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 430 |
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Posted: 17 Oct 06 at 7:23pm |
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Another problem with skiffs and two sail reaching, is purely the amount of power your controlling in the main, once offwind steering controls the heeling, and upwind your already close enough to only need to slightly release the main to dump power, however on a 2 sail reach u need to release alot more!!
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Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices!
Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
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swiftsolo.org
Posting king 
Joined: 14 Jul 05 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 101 |
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Posted: 17 Oct 06 at 12:03am |
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I guess it depends on your definition of reaching. If you are low enough that you can steer out of trouble by going low in a puff I don't think it is too bad. If it is blowing and you are trying to reach in the twilight zone then you are headed for trouble. Once the wind is over 17 knots or so I prefer to head high on a tight reach and then drop through the twilight zone and probably hoist the kite. The alternative is usually quite wet! Steve |
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Isis
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Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753 |
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Posted: 16 Oct 06 at 11:24pm |
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My experiance from 2 sailing cherubs is that the main cause of stacking it is due to loosing grip on the boat and initiating a pitchpole by shifting crew weight rapidly in the 'forestay' direction.
Getting well well back and locking into a fruitloop or two seems to be the key factor and the rest is down to stearing to the gusts to keep the boat as flat as possible and easing power when you have too to stop the rig loading up. They are definantly the most scary and twitchy point of sail but the grin factor is incredible if you can hold on to it... |
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