| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
 |
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
New Development Classes |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123 11> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Chew my RS 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: New Development ClassesPosted: 03 Feb 06 at 11:13am |
|
Is the time right for a new restricted development class? The current classes have evolved to a point where they are no longer appealing to mainstream, middle of the road sailors (I14 too extreme, MR too expensive, N12 too small etc). I'm not knocking them - in particular I think the Merlin is a great boat and very popular, but even this can only appeal to those who like traditional spinnakers. I am thinking of a class that is aimed at the average ability, average size, average pocket etc whilst not being constrained by some of the archaic rules surrounding existing classes, so that actual sail area would be measured and boats needn't be (faux) clinker built. Something like a restricted development RS400. I don't intend this as a rival to the 400, instead it would be grandfathered into the class. The ultimate aim and purpose would be to get the mainstream companies like LDC/Laser/Topper/Ovi etc to all produce designs for the same class. Some sort of rule would be needed to encourage these mass producers to get involved, not sure of the details but perhaps setting a max price or minimum production run. The idea could be extended to other new classes, such as a single wire asymmetric class into which the L4000 and ISO could be grandfathered and an MPS/700 style class. As I see this idea benefits everyone: Sailors - Sail in bigger fleets as, for example, the L400 and ISO would now sail together. Competition between manufacturers would discourage poor attention to detail in design. Have the security of buying from a well known manufacturer (if they wish). Gets some choice in the design, rather than being forced to accept one companies offering. Can buy a different boat every few years whilst staying in the same class Manufacterers - Get to release new designs regularly e.g RS401, 402 etc (without being accused of fragmenting fleets). Get to compete in market sectors previously difficult to penetrate (e.g. Laser don't currently produce a rival to the 400 because it wouldn't take off). By pooling resources, talents, designs etc the whole sailing community would be better off than the current situation of fighting against each other with each new design reducing fleet sizes further. Far from being another new class, this idea would amalgamate existing ones. This is basically taking the Fast Sail concept (a great success) a stage further. |
|
 |
|
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 11:49am |
|
Nice idea, but very difficult to organise.
From a manufacturer's point of view its far safer to get into a SMOD than a development class, so they need to be major enthusiasts to want to get into it. If you took the ISO/400 design space for instance a boat that would fit in that box would look a lot like a Kiwi Javelin and slaughter both of the one designs. SMODs, unlike development boats are not designed to be the fastest possible boat within that size range, there are other factors to consider. The hot initial boat within that space would probably be a rerigged 29er with a more sophisticated rig, but not as big as the XX rags. You could maybe have a box that the 4000 or ISO don't quite fit in, but give them a dispensation maybe... 4000 sailors out there, how would you feel about sailing your boats in an open class. It means you'd get to take out all that lead, but would you regard that as a good thing or would you rather have the equalisation... On the other hand it does work with the formula cats, so it must be possible... But in dinghies the most recent development Class I know of is the NZ Javelin, of about 1960. All those in the northern hemisphere are well over 50 years old. Edited by JimC |
|
|
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 11:55am |
|
You'd need a few dozen people interested to make this happen. Running a class is a lot of work, let alone starting one. SMODs have full time sales & marketing people. Development classes have enthustiastic volunteers (or they are in trouble). Stage 1, write your rule. Stage 2, persuade lots of people that they'd like such a boat, preferably concentrated in a few clubs. Stage 3, persuade one of more manufacturers that they should take your seriously. Have fun.
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Noble
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Nov 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 710 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 12:04pm |
|
whats wrong with the Cherub, i hate to drag this up again, but it encorporates all the features you mentioned above, forget about the ones that have been converted, but the new designs of off-the-shelf boats, the ones from RMW, or DL or Bloodaxe, or Aardvark, they are all designed for the new rules and are very smart boats.
Edited by Chris Noble |
|
|
Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine
FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
|
|
|
|
Chew my RS
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 12:12pm |
|
If they've got the same attention to detail as your spelling, then they're in trouble! Sorry - cheap shot |
|
|
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 12:22pm |
|
History shows you need a very well written rule to stop a development class becoming extreme.
|
|
|
|
|
Chew my RS
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 12:31pm |
|
True, and therein lies the difficulty (but not impossibility). The difference is that the Cherub is conceived as an extreme boat (twin trap, BIG kite, carbon hulls etc), my idea was for a more managable concept. |
|
|
|
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 1:10pm |
|
Is there anyone here who knows how the formula Cats were set up? Was it started by the manufacturers or someone with an idea or what? Chris (AUS) do you know this?
Rule writing is not a major problem these days, there's a lot of history. The challenge is not so much in the rule stopping boats becoming extreme but in the rule being too type forming and stopping worthwhile innovation. I was tangentially involved in drafting the proposed IC rules, and its not that big a deal provided you have a very clear idea of what you want to achieve and what your model is. The problem with boats coming excessively extreme tends to be more with the Class Association rather than the rule. Class Associations can get in the habit of making changes too frequently and with each change becoming more extreme. The main development dinghies I am aware of globally are I Moth, I 14, 12ft Skiff NZ Javelin , NZ R Aus Cherub, Aus NS14 UK Cherub, UK N12, UK Merlin You can't really call the NS14s, Javelins, AUS Cherubs, Merlins or N12s extreme. The Moths are actually moderate in most areas, sail area for instance, and where they are not its deliberate policy. The I14s and UK Cherubs took deliberate policy decisions to go extreme, as did the R in spinnaker area (its moderate in other ways), and of course the 12 footer has always banged the corner. |
|
|
|
|
Chew my RS
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 1:39pm |
|
The NS14s seem to have it about right in my opinion - pragmatic rules and good looking boats. I think the biggest killers are narrow beams or giant kites, as these tend to make the boats harder to sail thereby discouraging the majority.
|
|
|
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 06 at 1:49pm |
|
Don't really agree. I did quite a bit of work on rule changes and cleanup for an OD class at one time and making the rules tight, clear, self-consistent and in line with the RYA's framework for class rules was by no means straightforward. |
|
|
|
. 
How about a) they are twin trapeze b) they ARE extreme c) NOT MORE CHERRUBY WAFFLE|
Post Reply
|
Page 123 11> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy