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Doug H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dinghy Show thoughts
    Posted: 26 Feb 23 at 6:50pm
Went to the dinghy show for the first time in quite a few years yesterday, and keen to hear to what others thought.  
Here's my thoughts.  (I currently sail a Solo that I bought a few months ago)

Layout:  It all felt a bit smaller, or maybe a lot smaller.  I was certainly surprised that the Solo stand was just one boat and felt a bit tucked away, even though with the way the new venue is, it wasn't tucked away at all.  
It's one of the biggest and most competitive classes in the country and so I think they should be pushing for a prime centred spot with more floor space.  
Ovington..... where's the 49er?  I know, there's no real point in paying for the extra space to display a boat that is an olympic class where new boats only get bought by people who literally HAVE to buy them in order to do an olympic campaign.  However, I just think the dinghy show should be a big event of "here's everything!!".  The Ovi 14 did look stunning.  
It all felt a bit constrained and lacking, not quite as much room to walk around each individual boat.  Although maybe it's actually no different and it's just a mind trick of the layout of the venue.  
Ian Walker I believe still has his games 470, get that boat to the dinghy show!!

Catamarans: As much as I mock catamarans I wouldn't have minded seeing a few more cats, but i guess it's an honest representation of the fact we're not a big cat sailing country.  

Visibility: I wonder if we should actually not have (not allow?) walling around individual stands, that way it might be easier to spot things.  Maybe just low "picket fence" style separation between stands?  Lets face it, no one is going to study what images or info you've decorated your stand walls with.  All we really want is to see the boats up close in real life, so lets remove the visual blockages between stands.  

Inspired:  Several times went over to see the OK, Solo, Europe, Finn, Scorpion.  They just visually have a lot to offer for me.  Over the years, the more classes i've sailed the less I become interested in speed and the more interested I am in technicality.  

Carbon: For all the people who think the only future is carbon...... I don't get it.  When I see the OK boom, from companies like A.O.R. and Allen, and the beautiful kicker lever arrangement, I don't think "Well that's stupid, just use carbon", I think "now that is a stunning bit of kit".  When I went over to the Solo stand, i didn't look at the mast and think it was stupid that it wasn't carbon, i just thought "F' me, that's an absolute unit of a mast section, I'm glad I went for the slimmer section.".  It still looked like a really nice mast and a damn sight more affordable than if it were carbon.  
I can't help but think the only people pushing for carbon are people with a lot of spare cash to burn.  But the claim that classes should push into carbon or be left behind and forgotten I just don't think is at all true.  And for me the dinghy show confirmed that.  I was instantly bored with the 1.5 seconds I spent looking at an aero, the fact that it has a carbon mast and boom does nothing for me.  

I genuinely hope the RS500, RS200, RS400 stick with Alu rigs.  
For the average sailor and even for the very good sailor, you get a technical aspect of how best to tweak and tune your mast for different conditions.  That doesn't change because you changed the material, but the cost does change.  

That new one design moth thing that's not a waszp: I got told by a friend to go find it, and it looks very nice.  Really, it does!  However, I think the waszp has excelled where the old bladerider (it's the bladerider that pitched itself as the O.D. moth wasn't it??) didn't, entirely because it's such a robust lower cost option.  I have no interest in a waszp but I genuinely see the merit in it.  
This new gizmo though (sorry, can't remember what it was called), really looked like a very proper bit of kit.  It looked really bloody nice...... which means I'm guessing compared to a waszp means it's really bloody expensive and if I wanted expensive, I can just get a moth.  I'm guessing the builders think there's a middle ground between moth and waszp, and I actually just don't think there is.  So I hope their endevour pays off, because they really have put something quite nice together but I'm not convinced.  

Anyway, that's enough drivel from me for now, I'm keen to know what you all thought????? 


Edited by Doug H - 26 Feb 23 at 6:53pm
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Dakota View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 23 at 8:29pm
Re carbon masts. 
I think you have to recognise the  difference between stayed and un stayed boats . 
With stayed boats with reasonable rig tension the performance gap is small for the average sailor especially if you count in the extra cost. My experience with the British moth was I wasn’t any faster overall with a carbon mast but I found I had to think harder about controlling the mast bend in normal conditions butI did find the mast blading off did make the boat a little easier to control in high winds . Was it worth the extra cost? Not in my view . So much so I went back to a boat with a tin mast and a carbon boom. 
But with un stayed rigs the difference is night and day in my view, just sail a Laser or Comet back to back with either a Zero or a Aero . The extra money spent on a carbon mast is worth every penny with the rewards in the sailing experience .
As for carbon booms that’s big yes from me. The lack of weight when you go though the gybe is worth every penny what ever the boat .  Smile

In general the comments online seem to be positive about the show other than the location . We were going to go as it’s only adds about 20mins to the journey time by car from the midlands but managed to double book ourselves on the Saturday but I can see the new location is a lot more trouble if your using trains. 
The thing is a cannot think of a midlands based exhibition centre that could hold the event other than the NEC. And I totally understand why the RYA cannot afford it . 
Can anyone suggest a suitable venue in the area north of London to south of Manchester with good road and rain links ? 




Edited by Dakota - 27 Feb 23 at 3:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 9:04am
I could be wrong but suspect that for many the attraction of the solo is the ability to race other solos in fleets at club, open or national level rather than they think it is the loveliest boat on the planet. Cant recall anyone ever telling me they thought the solo was a great looking boat or extolling the virtues of its mast. Don't get me wrong, if you want great class racing the the solo is a great choice.

I am not sure if you have sailed a boat with a carbon mast recently? For me its a transformation similar in scale to sailing around in oilskins compared to modern wetsuits.

Have heard lots of great feedback from people that went to this years show and some of the same voices concerned about the location for those North of London.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 11:20am
I didnt mind the walling around stands, I wasnt going to read stuff on the walls but if they had some nice photos of the boats being sailed then that was nice. If I wanted to find a particular boat I just looked up at the sails which could be seen from a distance.
How much are class associations paying for these stands? Perhaps if we knew that you would realise why there was only 1 solo on the stand.
It was my first time attending with the kids and they had a great time, the treasure hunt and kids activities in the interactive zone at the end were great.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 1:32pm
As for the comments on carbon booms....as an owner of an OK (heavy square sectioned ali boom) versus a H2 (light, round, carbon boom) I think I can say that my head prefers the H2 any day!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fleaberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 3:26pm
It was a lot better than last year, that's for sure.
I only really went this time to see if any progress had been made and, on the whole, I thought that it was a big improvement on '22.

Needs to expand a bit room-wise (Do they have extra space at Farnborough?) 'cos it did feel a bit cramped at times.
Signage needs to be improved a lot - I pretty much got lost trying to get out of the building as it's such a 'Big bland hall' rather than something with features to help navigate around.

Definitely needed a few more dinghy classes but, as pointed out, how much do these stands cost? At AP the 'basic' stand was in the high hundreds, but extras like walls, electric, carpet etc were all charged on top so smaller classes just don't have the funds.

More retailers was good to see this year and the food vans were a welcome change.

I thought it was a big improvement on '22and showed a bit of promise with a few more changes.

I travelled down from the Midlands but drove this year and it was dead easy. I usually catch the train and that, last year, was equally as straightforward so location wise I don't think it's too bad.

Yeah, i'll give it a cautionary thumbs-up and hope for more improvement next year.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 5:11pm
A basic stand is around £400 from memory, so whilst its not "cheap" for a class to come along its not prohibitive either. The real issue is having a bunch of people willing to come along with a boat, set it up and stand around for two days and then take it down. I know that does not sound like alot of effort but I suspect that the effort is more a barrier than the cost.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 23 at 7:38pm
I thought it was a great show and while the venue is good, it's in the wrong place. Sure it's dead handy if you're based in Hamble but a proper pain from much further afield. A 7-8 hour drive each way from central-ish Scotland this year. I tried flying last year but it was not much different in time or cost I suspect (1hr to airport, 1.5hrs before flight, 1.5hr flight and it would have been another 2.5hrs and 3 changes by train to Farnborough). Even friends from East Anglia were saying it was 4hrs for them to drive there.
I was on the OK/Finn/Europe stand which I think worked well. Three classes sharing a bigger stand than any single one could reasonably afford with lots of space for visitors to walk through and linger between the boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 23 at 10:56pm
Carbon masts seem to offer a very significant performance advantage on classes where they aren't rule limited. But the biggest advantage of all, to my mind, is taking the mast up and down. I hadn't really registered how casual I'd got about throwing sticks about until I helped out with a tin one after some years of only carbon on my boats!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 23 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by JimC

But the biggest advantage of all, to my mind, is taking the mast up and down. I hadn't really registered how casual I'd got about throwing sticks about until I helped out with a tin one after some years of only carbon on my boats!

So true, I sailed Lasers for 20 years but for the last decade Ive had boats like Lightnings and British moths and for the last couple years I’ve had a D-zero.
I re rigged our club Laser a few weeks ago , god I had forgotten how heavy the mast is . Smile
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