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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Topic: rockerPosted: 01 May 18 at 6:15am |
In the D-Zero I am rarely too far forward unless it is very light (drifting conditions). There are a set of cleats on the deck that are roughly in line with the back of the daggerboard case. I find my front leg just resting against one is about as far forward as you want to go.
The front bit is used by my kids though when I take them out for a ride. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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NickA
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Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784 |
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Posted: 30 Apr 18 at 9:32pm |
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I was looking at an RS Aero the other day and realised that it has no-where to sit "up front". It has a long nose and a mast that is well forward, but the crew is forced to sit quite a way back, behind the centre-board. I guess it's designed to work well when planing at the expense of being able to hold the nose down.
The D-zero, on the other hand seems to have a better range of seating positions allowing you to get well forward of the centre board ... and also seems to go better up wind. I wonder if these things are perchance related! |
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Javelin 558
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Daniel Holman
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Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 6:46pm |
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Older, generally heavier and slower boats usually have the ends just kissing the water at full load. Hence not much forward trim needed in the light. Also, older boats squat and trim by the stern at speed so less need to get weight back.
Hullforms optimised more for semi displacement (5-12kts) will have their ends immersed at rest at full load as significant amounts of transom immersion is optimal from a resistance perspective, whilst maintaining waterline length. What this means is that, along with lighter weight some Modern hp boats have a lot less “rocker” which by proxy means higher cp, and manifests itself in less squat / more dynamic lift, thus less drag in semi displacement p. In practice this was also enabled by the designers subsequent to ok etc understanding that sailors would be happy to move fwd and aft to optimise the boats trim to boatspeed. Modern straight low rocker hp boats actually require a higher moment to change trim (mct) ie are less sensitive in absolutes trim terms to weight placement, but the hydrostatics / transom and chine immersion changes a lot more per degree of trim than say, a firefly. |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 5:05pm |
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very easy to over simplify... As a very sweeping generalisation older style boats have the mast much further forward, fuller bows and more rocker, which means that the cockpit is more amidships and more movement is required to make the same trim change.
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 4:43pm |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 4:38pm |
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Hate to break it to you ... but your one just has a really fat arse.
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Sam.Spoons
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 3:53pm |
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Yes understood. My curiosity was regarding the need/effectiveness of sitting forward in the light stuff. The supposition being that old boats had more rocker and deadrise you don't need to sit as far forward to avoid dragging the transom.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 9:35am |
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You also need to consider structural requirements. The thwart across the middle of an old style plywood boat tends to be a major structural member supporting the centreboard case and the sides. Without that support a boat would bend in all sorts of undesirable ways. A double bottom boat, especially one with bulkheads under the false floor, is much stronger.
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Sam.Spoons
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 9:18am |
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Skiffy boats aren't designed with light winds in mind so I suspect the latter but we take advantage of the space in a drifter, obviously it's irrelevant once you are sitting out.
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 16 Mar 18 at 9:20am |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 18 at 8:22am |
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Rocker and deadrise. But is the cockpit then designed like that to allow movement, or is it simply that a double bottom means you don't need decks, thwarts or other bouyancy tanks?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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