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14 capsize recovery *solved*
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m_liddell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 4:32pm

Just been out sailing in my 14 again after it being out of action for 3 months. Great fun but I'm still having major issues righting her after a capsize. I sail with my sister and our combined weight is around 21.5 stone so righting it is never going to be easy. The boat always lies with the hull upwind of the rig across the wind, when we try and right it the boat does not turn up into the wind at all making the fully batterned main power up a bit. Ditching the kicker doesn't help either.

We tried swimming the bow into the wind but when we then tried to right it it started to bear away again. I'm going to try righting the the rig upwind of the hull and having my sister hand onto the trapeze handle next! Nothing else seems to work. I've never had any issues with righting RS800's or 29er's.

Any advice guys?



Edited by m_liddell
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Steve Clark View Drop Down
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Posts: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 5:45pm

Jib sheet eased?
If the boat has a self tacker, it may be that there isn't enought throw to the cascade and so the jib is pulling the bow down.  Add length somehow.

Anoher possibility is that the tiller is not staying on center. SOmetimes the heavy double tiller extensions are enough move the tiller and rudder around, can cause the boat to beart away or tack on top of you as you are comming up. A good bungee to keep the helm centered often helps keep things normal while you fracas.

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Garry View Drop Down
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Posts: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 7:04pm
Some other suggestions:

Try hanging onto the centreboard as the boat rights and go under water with it for a few seconds, this should stabalise the righting. You could also try scoping your crew in as the boat rights so you have some weight that can balance the boat. The crew hanging onto the bow might also work combined with going under with the CB. Tie some floatation to the masthead and practice until you find something that works.

Edited by Garry
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 7:26pm
If its really windy

This was written by well known Australian designer and sailor Frank Bethwaite, it applies to all two handed dinghies, not just the Tasar he mentions. I have permission to reproduce it on my club website so here should be OK.


About 1983 the Australian Navy purchased the first eighty of what are now about 160 Tasars, and I worked with their coaches to develop safety drills specifically for the Tasar. This took the form of sailing in extreme conditions (25 to 30 knots) and deliberately capsizing and recovering to prove what worked, and to learn what didn't work, when the chips were down.

We learned that in strong winds even a strong young man cannot swim an Inverted Tasar head to wind. The windage force is too great, and all the crew does is to exhaust himself or herself. So lesson one is to accept that the boat will lie crosswind, and don't try to do anything about it.

Lesson two was that in winds exceeding about 20 knots even two strong men could not right a Tasar "to windward" ie. with the mast downwind. The windage on the inverted hull and the two crew drove the boat downwind at about ¼ to ½ a knot, and the force of this flow of water onto the sails was simply too great for the crew to oppose. Conversely, the slightest righting effort the other way, ie. with the mast breaking out to windward, rolled the boat upright very quickly.

Obviously, any boat righted with the mast to windward in strong winds will flip straight over the other way as soon as the wind gets under the sails unless you do something about it. What to do about it is that in extreme conditions one crew mounts the hull and, when ready, pulls the centreboard to leeward. The other goes first to the bow; then as the mast approaches horizontal moves aft under the jib and grasps the shrouds, and hangs on. As the boat rights this crew member is lifted out of the water outside the hull, and this weight prevents the boat from capsizing again.

This crew member then acts as a sea anchor and the boat is stable even in extreme conditions for as long as he/she hangs on. This gives time for the other crew member to board. He/she can ride the centreboard under the hull and emerge to windward, or board over the low gunwale from leeward, or swim around to windward and get in from there. The trap here is that when you are on the leeward side in extreme conditions the drift speed of the boat drags your legs and lower body under the boat. Even young sailors proud of their strength could not get in from the lee side in winds stronger than about 20 kts, so in the interests of avoiding exhaustion we recommended swimming around the transom and mounting from the windward side. The person in the boat cleans up as necessary. When ready, the boat can be rolled to windward to lower the windward gunwale for easy boarding of the second crew member.

My final tip comes from Air Force training with inflatable dinghies. The easiest way to board any raft is to kick your legs horizontal, lunge, and go in head down like a fish. If you try to get in with your spine vertical all that happens is that your legs go under the raft, and you become exhausted.

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CurlyBen View Drop Down
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Posts: 539 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 8:03pm
What about sinking the bow to get the boat head to wind, think that's part of capsize recovery on cats?
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jpbuzz591 View Drop Down
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Posts: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jpbuzz591 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 9:24pm

what about one of u holding the bow as it is righted so that it turns head to wind?

 
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ssailor View Drop Down
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Posts: 430 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ssailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 05 at 10:35pm
Hey first of all do you have an aluminium mast? if you do then you will find it very hard work, the older 14s with aly masts are a sod to right!

The technique you mention has been adopted by alot of us because the carbon mast boats will sit with the sails to windward - free all sheets, then one gets on the board and the other sits in the crewing position holding the (going to be) windward wire and the mainsheet - as the boat comes up u sheet on ever so slighty trapezing into the boat while the person on the centreboard hops in keeping their head low - that way you can both end up in the boat it looks cool and one of you can grab the helm!
Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices!

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m_liddell View Drop Down
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Posts: 583 		Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 05 at 11:39am

The mast is carbon luckily. I'll give the mast to windward righting method a go and see what happens.

The boat came with pretty thick elastic around the tiller but I'll replace it since it's in a bad state. I've put twin tillers on (2 rs600 extensions) which are failry heavy so this might also be an issue.

A few other thinks to try here too, cheers guys.
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les5269 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1530 		Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 05 at 7:25pm
I own a laser 5000 and my helm is fairly light what we do is start righting the boat and as it comes up he hops in and i grab the trapeeze loop and use that to bring the boat up (it also helps you get back in too!) This seems to work for us .
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m_liddell View Drop Down
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Posts: 583 		Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 05 at 7:34pm

Oops double post!



Edited by m_liddell
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