New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Speed Bumps
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Speed Bumps

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
a_stevo View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 29 Aug 05
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
Post Options Post Options   Quote a_stevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Speed Bumps
    Posted: 28 Sep 05 at 12:18am

At the heart of fluid mechanics/dynamics is boundary layer theory.One of the very first principles of boundary layer theory is the "no slip condition" which uses an assumption that the water/or anyother fluid at the surface ( a sail or hull in this case) has zero relative velocity.

The differences in drag due to surface imperfections is due to the boundary layer being increased in thickness. which means that you drag along more water with you. Also the surface irregularities cause turbulence which can trip the boundary layer into a turbulent flow. Turbulent flow is generally a lower drag state as the velocity profile has greater speed at lower levels when compared to laminar theories. As a result the smoothness of your hull and foils are much more critical when going slow.

Back to Top
C249 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 30 Aug 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Post Options Post Options   Quote C249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

If you are trapping water against a surface, doesn't that ultimately slow you down. It would be really hard to trap a continuous skin of water round the boat, it might work in instances but I don't think it would stand well against a boat with a constant quick fast moving flow round it. I think Bethwaite experimented with it at one point too.


It's not hard at all according to Marchaj - he says it's basic physics because there is (IIRC) an inter-molecular attraction between the atoms of the water molecules and the atoms of the hull (even if they are of different materials). He says the water will ALWAYS stick to the hull to some extent.

I assume the difference between the way water sticks to various surface finishes is just an indication of the varying strength of the molecular bond versus the force of gravity/surface tension etc - anyone know?
Back to Top
NickA View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 784
Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 8:54pm


53 SKIN FRICTION
A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer.  !!!!!!!

So my aged boat would be illegal if I'd scratched it on purpose, but OK since I did it by accident???

Only one thing to say to you lot.  Trip turbulators.

Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 7:03pm
We decided against at Whitefriars when we redid the road, I'm glad to say...we now just have the problem of people going at silly speeds down it. There are even tyre skid marks by the gate where people have wheel spun. Can't win, really!
Back to Top
timnoyce View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Aug 04
Location: Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1991
Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 5:09pm
right as the other speed bump topic seems to have gone more technical i thought i might try and sway this one towards another type of speed bump which you seem to find down at the sailing club.... the ones in the car park!!! WHY oh WHY do sailing clubs all have speed bumps?! Do they have a secret link with boat repairers, manufacturers and MOT men? When i am trailing my boat i take that as reason enough to drive slowly, i do not need some idiot to put in some mini mountains to shake apart my beloved piece of kit as it is brutalised by the trailer!
BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb
Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 9:26am

Originally posted by Ian29937

If speed creases do this, and they clearly do for many classes in certain conditions, then this is the way to go.

I agree with that. 

Back to Top
Ian29937 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 25 May 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 409
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Ian29937

Reducing drag is much less important with sails which work on lift generated by pressure difference

Creating lift also always creates drag. Prandtl's theorem says so. Impress your friends by dropping that into the conversation. 

Obviously true, but it is the lift which propels the boat.

As I said the drag is 'less important' than creating the optimum sail shape to generate the maximum lift, to go faster.  If speed creases do this, and they clearly do for many classes in certain conditions, then this is the way to go. 

Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 6:31am

Originally posted by Ian29937

Reducing drag is much less important with sails which work on lift generated by pressure difference

Creating lift also always creates drag. Prandtl's theorem says so. Impress your friends by dropping that into the conversation. 

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 1:37am
Originally posted by jeffers

Wasn't there something trick about the Aus or NZ boat quite a few years
back when they went for a 'sharkskin' finish on the hull


The sharksin was on Conners 12 at the Freo Amcup. It only worked when very carefully placed and over a very narrow speed range. Fortunately 12 metres, unlike dinghies, only really work within a pretty narrow speed range.

Such things are illegal now under the racing rules:-


53 SKIN FRICTION
A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer.


So if you see someneputting dimples on or whatever you can protest them!
Back to Top
49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1991
Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 05 at 8:56pm
If you are trapping water against a surface, doesn't that ultimately slow you down. It would be really hard to trap a continuous skin of water round the boat, it might work in instances but I don't think it would stand well against a boat with a constant quick fast moving flow round it. I think Bethwaite experimented with it at one point too.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
Helensburgh S.C
Boat Insurance from Noble Marine

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy