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davidyacht View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by davidyacht

Symetrical kites are underrated, offer far more venue options for a boat of this type.

While I see plenty of merit in symetrical kites, a boat equipped with one would not be 'of this type'.
Do we need all these venue options? I'm quite happy to have a boat that is OK for fairly open water.
If I want to cross oceans or sail on a narrow river, then clearly a different boat will be best.
Why should the options of those who do proper sailing on the sea be limited by other people who want to sail on rivers and small bits of damp wasteland?
Having been one of the pioneering assymetric I14 sailors, and having sailed RS400s and RS200s around their inception it always struck me that their power to weight ratios missed the point if not the joy of soaking down and apparent wind sailing.  

To be fair to the RS200 and the RS400, these are well engineered and marketed boats, which have done much to keep dinghy sailors engaged with the sport, but I do think that symmetrical kites, particularly when combined with twin poles are a good solution.

The base of the pyramid of sailing waters was much stronger when there were thriving clubs on every River reach and gravel pit, sadly the development of many of the RS, ISO and Laser products, which jumped on the assymetric bandwagon, were unsuitable for the heartlands of dinghy sailing.

Having said all that, ICON 2 looks quite nice, and if it is light enough might be a better ride than a 400, not that we will ever find out!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 6:48pm
The "of this type" comment is interesting. If the type is "3 sailed sitting out dinghy", then this boat is in there with Merlins, Larks, the 400, 2000 and all sorts of other things. Even the Mirror. We know from posts on here how varied a selection of boats people consider.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by RS400atC


I don't think people buying new boats of this genre for 'non racing fun' amounts to much of a market.


I hope for Cirrus sake there is because fleet racing in dinghies in the good old US of A does not exist so I guess they hope to sell to schools, colleges and holiday clubs.

I think your defence of the 400 is misplaced/unnecessary; by not being a fan of the swing pole assy does not mean there is no recognition of the fact the 400 seems to be in reasonable health.

The fleet is a long way short of its heyday 20ish  years ago when it could turn out 100+ boats at a nationals but it seems it can still turn out reasonable fleets. 

I don't think this boat has any intention to try an compete with a 400.

The 400 is just the obvious comparison.
Somebody ought to be trying to compete with it, it's been around quite a long time, surely we can improve on something designed that long ago?
I imagine the schools and colleges you speak of will be racing these boats?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 7:18pm
As iGRF has said on several occasions about various boats, losing 30 or 40 kg's would make the 400 a better boat in many ways. It would be livelier, quicker to plane, more exciting to sail but also less stable and requiring of a higher skill level. It would also be more expensive and/or more fragile.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 7:29pm
It would also be a damned site easier to launch and recover, I know of at least one complete crew thinking this might be the last season of hauling the great fat arse that s an RS400 across the beach.. RS need to take an Aero blowtorch to it.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

As iGRF has said on several occasions about various boats, losing 30 or 40 kg's would make the 400 a better boat in many ways. It would be livelier, quicker to plane, more exciting to sail but also less stable and requiring of a higher skill level. It would also be more expensive and/or more fragile.


You can get a 36ft open water carbon kevlar rowing gig cheaper than an RS400 hull.
But I'm not talking about making the 400 a better boat. The 400 is the 400 end of.
I'm talking about making a better boat that fulfils a similar role.
You don't design a car today by tweaking a Rover 25.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 9:46pm
Maybe not a Rover 25 but a Healey 3000 built with carbon fibre and modern running gear, brakes and engine; 250 BHP and weighing 900kg would be wonderful......
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 18 at 9:47pm
But I get where you're coming from, the RS400 is what it is and is successful because of that Change it and it's something different (like a modern Supernova)........
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 18 at 12:41am
Look we only revealed a few details for interest since it was developed here in the UK ... Don't take what we are doing with Venom so seriously guys. 

This thread is in Y&Y 'dinghy development' category thread and since we are now doing the final bit openly and at a regular SC it seemed logical just to be a bit more open about it.  If you like what we are doing or are just curious / interested fine .. if not don't get too up tight about it.   You may never get to sail one or even against one ... but depending on exactly where you are, you never know one day, you just might .... .  Wink 

Edited by Cirrus - 10 Mar 18 at 12:44am
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 18 at 6:53am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

But I get where you're coming from, the RS400 is what it is and is successful because of that Change it and it's something different (like a modern Supernova)........
More Vauxhall Nova if you're not careful.
Maybe even with some fake carbon like a chav bonnet wrap?
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