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Symmetrical Spinnakers |
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getafix 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
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 Topic: Symmetrical SpinnakersPosted: 15 Aug 06 at 4:12pm |
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small ponds are where symetrical spinnakers rule, as the wind bends
through the trees you can sail your best course to the next mark
without worrying about gybing angles in the same way you need to with
an assy
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Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
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tickel
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 408 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 11:46pm |
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If your class rules allow it try a flying pole on a symetric. On our Javelin (sailed on a small pond) I,as a little old man had great trouble clipping the pole onto the mast with 15 sm of kite flogging on the other end, so I converted it. Much quicker. We sold the "Jav" and now have a Taser so we dont have to bother with all that nonsense.
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tickel
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 1:24pm |
Gybe mark, Cherub worlds, 1976. Incidentally that worlds was one by an Australian sister and brother, Nicky and Julian Bethwaite.  Edited by JimC |
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m_liddell
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Joined: 27 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 583 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 12:14pm |
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Being able to hoist the entire sail with just one big pull was quite a difference from the 33sqm masthead asy on my 14 It's lucky the 470 was so stable, symmetrical kites on a really tippy boat (cherub, 14 etc) must be a total nightmare. |
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tack'ho
Really should get out more
Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 12:11pm |
Thats a kite?!? I thought fireball sailors just enjoyed waving at each other on the runs with their hankies...coooooeeee heeelooo there mavis |
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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 10:22am |
Err, no. That's nonsense. I'm probably one of a very few people on the forum who has sailed the exact same boat with both types of kite, and I can assure you that's not the case. In Cherubs it quite often paid to do the runs as broad reaches with the pole about 12-18 inches off the forestay with the pole kite. Hotting it up enough to actually have the pole on the forestay was much more opf a high risk option which lost more often than it paid, althought it could work like crazy if you hooked into the right gusts and shifts. The thing that's often forgotten with these asymettric/symettric comparisons is that the sprit kites are invariably far larger because you can handle a bigger rag with the sprit. I remember a well know sail maker telling us in '89 that asymettric kites wouldn't work on a Cherub unless we increased the sail area 50%. He was wrong as it happened, but it is true to say that the average sailors can handle a kite getting on for 50% bigger... And if you increased the klite size by 50% on a Fireball I bet it would go a hell of a lot faster on a deep reach even without the pole on the forestay... Probably little faster on a dead run though admittedly. |
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Iain C
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1113 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 8:38am |
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Wrong diddly wrong wrong. Check my signature, I sail both types, and a Fireball has a very small kite. I have sailed races in the Cherub against the Fireballs much to their amusement in lighter winds as I gybe back and forth across their transoms and make exactly the same VMG. I have also gone screaming over the top of them in breeze on a reach only to lose absolutely loads as I catch a gust and go off 30 degrees lower and totally miss the mark whilst struggling to get the kite down. No other 3 sail boat will stay with a Fireball on a really tight 3 ragger! With an asymmetric there really is not much to it. Up, down, in out and perhaps a blow through and a gybe drop. With a symmetrical add twinning lines, reaching cleats, single and double ended poles, windward and leeward hoists, chuck hoists, pitchfork hoists, Israeli gybes, pole height and Aussie drops! That's before you've added tactics, angles, making sure everything is on the correct side for the first hoist and in fact do we or don't we fly the kite down this reach or not etc etc! Interesting fact too that most symmetrical kite sailors can do all that and also spell "symmetrical" but most asymmetric sailors can't actually spell asymmetric!!!! |
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RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
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Contender 541
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Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 8:10am |
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Lets not forget that the one bat that is consistantly in most peoples top 10, the 505, is a symmetric and with a bloody big one at that Believe me having learned to trapeze and use spinakers over the last 12 months sailing one, there are occasions when I look at assymetrics and wonder how easy is would be to be able to play with a big jib instead of the giant I do use. As for speed difference, try one!! The skill involved in gybing a symmetric and keeping the boat speed is much higher that that for assymetrics. It is also a lot more physical. Symmetrics and Assymetrics both have there place - besides its funny watching them both sail the same general handicap course
As pointed out below, I can't spell Symmetric!! Edited by Contender 541 |
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When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss
Crew on 505 8780 |
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Garry
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Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 7:41am |
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Then why at the Lark nationals are we not reaching off (using asymmetric tactics) on the downwind leg of the sausage? What evidence or experience (sailing symetric spinnakers) are you basing the above comment on. |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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Ian99
Posting king 
Joined: 07 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 138 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 12:03am |
Try sailing something like a GP or a Lark down a run without the spinnaker at the nationals, and you'll soon see that it increases the speed!!! With the exception of the properly fast boats with asymmetric spinnakers (RS800, B14, Musto Skiff etc) many of the "new breed" would actually be significantly faster in the majority of conditions we see in this country if they had a proper (symmetric) spinnaker on instead, as when going low in lighter winds you wouldn't be right on the edge of it collapsing all the time as it would be possible to get it the right angle to the wind. |
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