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Laser radial sail price

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser radial sail price
    Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 7:22pm
When we used to race our 'One Design Class' Boards in the Open class, the Class Legal sail was often substituted for a local built sail, so such a sail built locally to the Open class measurements which would be different to the class would often carry say an M logo, now it would be a very foolish manufacturer to attempt or threaten legal action to prevent that use, indeed to my memory it was never tested.
Handicap racing  I see as the equivalent to our Open class, without the measurement restrictions of course, so I can see nothing any dinghy class could do to stop any of us using local built sails with the class insignia if we so wish. Certainly that outfit could not be used in class events, but what we do locally or even at handicap affairs is no one elses business other than our own and I fail to see any legal precedent that would be broken. Copywrite even, only just applies if someone is attempting to profit from it's use, so provided the owner alone sticks on a logo and the sails are not marketed as that classes sail it's not going to stand and the cost of such a case would be beyond the sensible pursuit from the confines of the balance sheets of most of the sailing company I've ever studied here in the UK.

No I'm sorry if they wish to continue making ludicrously high margins from sails then they can only reap the backlash, full laser sails could be landed duty paid for 50 USD not so long ago when I looked it it with one of my then suppliers of windsurfing sails they are silly cheap to build and as for my own class I'm going to have a full technora or similar membrane sail built for half the price of the rubbish it comes with and I will enjoy sailing the boat the more as a result, that is their problem not mine.



Edited by G.R.F. - 17 Apr 17 at 7:29pm
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 6:32pm
Thus replica Blaze sails can't carry the 'Blaze' logo but, as long as they don't there's nowt the CA or builder can do to stop another sailmaker making them.

But when they do .. even if the typeface is 'different' or 'modified' they simply invite legal action as some may well find out before too long  !!    You can put what you like up your mast but not with someone else's logo or name on it....   A different point but it is also interesting that some clubs submit PN returns to the RYA that include pattern sail users as being 'in class' because locally they have decided to allow them to race within a class... A 'faster' or 'slower' substitute training sail could possibly lead to an inaccurate PN ... Discuss ! 


Edited by Cirrus - 17 Apr 17 at 6:32pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 5:26pm
Given the sh*t fight just gone down in Connecticut, if Laser had any legal grounds to challenge the training sail market, then frankly they'd have done it years ago.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 5:22pm
Most of the issues with replica/counterfeit gear is to do with trade marks and 'passing off' if you aren't pretending it's the real thing and it doesn't copy the trade mark of the original the law won't be interested. Laser can't copyright the sail dimensions or design (people have been making broad seamed sails for hundreds of years, and radial cut since long before the Laser was a twinkle in BK's eye) only their trademark. Thus replica Blaze sails can't carry the 'Blaze' logo but, as long as they don't there's nowt the CA or builder can do to stop another sailmaker making them.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Wow, try that with rugby or football gear.


I don't think you'd be in too much trouble with the lawyers for producing a plain white rugby shirt.
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andymck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 1:03pm
The pound has dropped a massive amount but this seems a mad price increase.
I guess I won't be getting a new sail this year after all.
Andy Mck
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 12:41pm
I would say the soft contribution replica sails have made to the overall 'de-nettling' of club grade Lasers across the globe are worth way more in real terms to the Laser sailing game than whatever nominal crumbs Rastegar gives via the overpriced rag.

Edited by turnturtle - 17 Apr 17 at 12:43pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by deadrock

There is also a contribution to the Laser Class Association from the sale of each sail.

I wonder how much it is?  Wink
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 12:03pm
A certain level of pragmatism seems appropriate, if I bought a £500 L@ser to race at my home club I doubt I could justify a £540 sail so a replica would be the only sensible option. I do get the 'One Design' concept and for open meetings and championships disallowing replicas makes sense but if allowing them in the club handicap fleet means more boats on the water then that can only be good.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 11:22am
There is no right or wrong on this - it's your boat.

Personally I'd have no issue any boat handicap racing at club level with a replica sail, but I'd draw a line at buying one for anything other than a Laser myself.

We each have our own levels of acceptability on this topic, and more often than not, will be guided by the general consensus of the club we are sailing at.

Edited by turnturtle - 17 Apr 17 at 11:45am
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