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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-Zero
    Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Null

Graeme, cancelling orders is kind of succumbing to the 'bullsh*t' is it not?  Its a bit early to jump to conclusions on PY.  We don't even know where exactly or who exactly wrote that list.  
What stinks is one class has been nailed the other has not.  Just so happens the has not class is sponsoring the prize!
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:45pm
Can I please state that as current chairman of the PYAG, to my knowledge that document has not come from us and I doubt the RYA Technical Dept would publish a list deviating from the national numbers without at least advising us of what was happening.

I intend to find out why the document has the RYA logo on it and were it has come from, because obviously as has happened here people will jump to conclusions.

I was however party to a discussion earlier in the week between the Great Lakes committee asking about setting handicaps for D-zero and RS Aero at the forthcoming winter series. There was a rush as it was stated Sailracer wanted to use the numbers for the Battle of the Classes. So as far as I understand it the Battle of the Classes was to use Great Lakes numbers (no idea why when not sailing on a lake). If these are the Great Lakes numbers (I haven't checked them all yet) I can say once again there are no manufacturers representatives or anyone with an agenda against either class on that committee.

The PYAG won't be rushing to publish any numbers that we have no confidence in and therefore as others have said it will take a little while for the zero and aero to filter through the system. Please do not blur the lines of PYAG and Great Lakes.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Null

Graeme, cancelling orders is kind of succumbing to the 'bullsh*t' is it not?  Its a bit early to jump to conclusions on PY.  We don't even know where exactly or who exactly wrote that list.  

What stinks is one class has been nailed the other has not.  Just so happens the has not class is sponsoring the prize!

It does all whiff a bit ...
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:41pm
Why oh why oh why don't you/we just buy and sail the boats you/we enjoy and don't get worked up about mickey mouse handicaps ?

Even the big handicap event are pretty much a lottery (wind, course and water conditions dependent) so why would any club sailors give a toss about handicaps ?

Getting worked up about these two boats relative handicaps is a joke - its way way too early.

FWIW - one looks like a serious race boat and the other looks like a possible Laser replacement (3 rigs and very simple) - their relative handicaps is irrelevant and they will probably both do well.

If the sole purpose of buying a %k boat is to beat Streakers and Solos on handicap seems rather sad ?





Picking a boat for its handicap (or cancelling an order) is ludicrous.


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Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote branchingfactor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:34pm
The PY number will sort itself out over time, based on actual boat performance in real-world conditions. So why cancel your order based on (what you believe to be) a low initial PY handicap?
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:15pm
Graeme, cancelling orders is kind of succumbing to the 'bullsh*t' is it not?  Its a bit early to jump to conclusions on PY.  We don't even know where exactly or who exactly wrote that list.  

What stinks is one class has been nailed the other has not.  Just so happens the has not class is sponsoring the prize!
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 8:00pm
I'm going to investigate the possibility of a restrictive practises action against the RYA.

In the meanwhile I've cancelled my D Zero order, I've been away a few days and missed all this, only this afternoon Rodney rang to say it's ready as I was driving back from the Southampton show.

I ordered the boat in good faith on the fair assumption with similar stats but a way smaller rig than the EPS I'd get a slower handicap with which to take on the Streakers and Solo's down the lake, 1010 isn't going to cut that.

So it's a pretty simple decision really, bloody shame, it's an otherwise excellent boat.

Personally I'd have refused to accept that and withdrawn, but then all the time manufacturers let this obvious corruption continue, then as customers what choice do we have?
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by JimC

Whatever it is, it doesn't look to me like a document that has any weight beyond the one event.

No different to the PYs that are publish for other large multi class events. I seem to recall the BM used to have it's own PY list prior to Great Lakes numbers beiing puglished.

Also no different to a club tweaking PYs.

My early experiences indicate that in some conditions 1044 is generous but I have hardly sailed across a range of conditions as yet and have been told that I can stick with the current number I am using until the next 'official' PY list gets published.
Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by JimC

Whatever it is, it doesn't look to me like a document that has any weight beyond the one event.


Edited by JimC - 18 Sep 14 at 2:28pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by kneewrecker

Is either on the online list yet with an EN?  Alex/Jim???
FWIW, have the PYAG been consulted with regards handicaps for these classes for this event? I'm


Not to my knowledge. No idea why there's an RYA logo on that doc, but think there's some mountain building going on. Whatever it is, it doesn'tlook to me like a document that has any weight beyond the one event.

cheers- and agreed.

edited- to deal with Jim's autocorrect!


Edited by kneewrecker - 18 Sep 14 at 2:52pm
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