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Rescue Boat Liability?

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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rescue Boat Liability?
    Posted: 13 Nov 06 at 6:16pm

the obvious answer to this is " what is the purpose of the safety boat?"

the answer surely is to save life and limb  with saving property very much a secondary consideration ... on most  enclosed waters  a boat with either blow ashore  or it's mast head will embed in the bottom  stopping it from moving ... the boat can be recovered at leisure...

in terms of people being allowed to sail or otherwise  if a club cancels racing at a point when  a suitably competent person decides it is too windy *for any* reasonable  competent sailor  then the club has exercised reasonable care , it is still a matter for individuals  to decide if up to that point  if it is too windy *for them* ... no one forces you to go sailing. the obvious exception  being when the activtiy is specifically a training one or one targetted at less experienced sailors , when the caution should kick in earlier - it still doesn't mean it's too windy to sail

i 'm sure many of us have gone blasting in serious wind  either 'overwieght' for the boat, reefed or by using different rigs ( e.g.  pinching the missus or little brothers radial rig)

 

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les5269 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 06 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by combat wombat

Originally posted by les5269

Sorry I should have made it clearer, the safety boat training includes actually going to the assistance of capsized boats including towing them in, righting from turtle and from on it's side.

We also do this with all sorts of boats from Lasers through fast asymmetrics to cats.

(we had the 49er/29er/59er,Musto skiffs and 420 inlands this w/end and the majority were sailing yesterday in gusts up to 37knots)

much respect to them! BTW we stayed on the shore

 



Ahem!  The B14's were there as well... we didn't stay on shore and got battered.  Wiped out in two gybes, ripped the kite and snapped a jib batten.  The Rescue at Grafham had it's hands full all Saturday.  Sunday was much better, perfect conditions. 

At our club we call the rescue boats "Patrol Boats", for insurance reasons. 

OOPs   sorry, yes you were there as well! and I did notice you all, It was a good w/end, hope everyone who went enjoyed it

The guys who were on the "safety boats" enjoyed watching and helping on Sat too from some of the feedback I got in the bar on .Sunday

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les5269 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 06 at 6:56pm

Redders, I think if all the clubs suddenly had to decide when it was safe to let people go sailing we would be in all sorts of trouble. I can just see our club trying to tell me I didn't have the experience to take my 49er out in 15 knots because I may capsize then need the "rescue boat" to come and fish me out, or if they put a limit on what wind strength we could sail in (how would a club determine this for each individual?).

Our club has introduced an upper limit for sailing when only windsurfers are allowed out, but this has only been used once since it's introduction, and it was constantly over 40knots then!

People just have to use their own common sense then take responsibility if it goes wrong (IMO)

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michel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 06 at 11:00pm

so combat wombat says that his club uses for legal reasons the term PATROL BOAT. No matter what terminology we use the fact that these boats are out there WITH a bunch of sailors who belong to the same club would strongly indicate that some sort of assistance and cover is being given.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote michel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 06 at 11:13pm

sorry,just reread his post and it was for INSURANCE reasons  that they refer to their SAFETY BOATS  AS patrol boats reasons  

 

                                           why ?       &n bsp;       

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tornado_ALIVE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 06 at 3:44am

Clubs and Race Committees in AUS have a duty of care to their club sailors.  If conditions are deemed to be above a safe level (above 22.5 knots sustained for most), then racing is required to be canceled and sailors advised not to go out.  Same goes if their is a forecast change and they must have a very quick means of advising sailors of a change approaching. 

The Bureau of Meteorology and the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia came under a lot of flack after the fatal 1998 Sydney to Hobart race for incorrect forecasts and advising sailors in a timely manner.

Below is an extract from our clubs sailing instroctions

4.4       When the floodlights on the Clubhouse are turned on, it signifies “race abandoned” and all boats are to return to the beach. The floodlight signals are discretionary by Race Officials and are in addition to and do not detract from any normal race abandonment signals.

23        DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY

Competitors and officials and other KCC members participating in events covered by these sailing instructions or as a consequence of these instructions do so at entirely their own risk. See rule 4, Decision to Race. The organising authority and KCC will not accept any liability for material damage or personal injury or death sustained in conjunction with or prior to, during, or after the events. 

A12.      Wind Limit and Operational Procedures

KCC racing will be abandoned or delayed if the wind is considered to be exceeding 22.5 knots either on average or if there are significant and frequent gusts above this figure. Prior to the Race Briefing conclusion, this decision rests with the Race Secretary. If the Race Secretary is not present, this decision rests with the Assistant Race Secretary. If neither is present, the decision rests with the Officer of the Day. After the Race Briefing, this decision rests with the Race Committee Vessel Boat Captain. Not withstanding this, all Skippers and Crews are reminded of Rule 4 (Decision to Race).  

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 06 at 8:17am
We do have a rule within the club rules that states that anyone who sails does so entirely at their own risk.

Surely every club should have that?


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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 06 at 12:36pm

Originally posted by jeffers

We do have a rule within the club rules that states that anyone who sails does so entirely at their own risk.

Surely every club should have that?

Yes they should but for moral effect, as it isn't actually enforceable in UK law. You still owe due care no matter what waivers you have got people to sign.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote combat wombat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 06 at 2:34pm

Section 6, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977... exclusion of liability for death and injury as a result of your own negligence is ineffective.

So, there would have to be negligence on the part of the club, and this assumes a duty of care exists.  I'm not sure that a sailing club owes a duty of care to sailors if they choose to go out on the water.  This will depend on if safety cover is provided (if it is, then more likely a duty will exist), and who owns the water (if the sailing club owns it, it is more likely a duty will exist).

I'm fairly confident that a sailing club will only owe a duty of care to sailors on the water if they provide safety cover.  This is different to sailors on land say in the clubhouse where occupiers liability provides for a duty of care. 



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English Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 06 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by combat wombat

Section 6, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977... exclusion of liability for death and injury as a result of your own negligence is ineffective.

So, there would have to be negligence on the part of the club, and this assumes a duty of care exists.  I'm not sure that a sailing club owes a duty of care to sailors if they choose to go out on the water.  This will depend on if safety cover is provided (if it is, then more likely a duty will exist), and who owns the water (if the sailing club owns it, it is more likely a duty will exist).

I'm fairly confident that a sailing club will only owe a duty of care to sailors on the water if they provide safety cover.  This is different to sailors on land say in the clubhouse where occupiers liability provides for a duty of care. 

Absolutely right!

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