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allanorton View Drop Down
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Posts: 228 		Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Boat from Laser?
    Posted: 19 Aug 06 at 9:10am
Originally posted by turnturtle

this forum is about our individual opinions and we are all equally valid whether we've sailed the thing or not.

Not in reality, I consider the opinion from someone with sailing experience of a boat, more valuable than an opinion from someone without, it just makes sense to me.

Originally posted by turnturtle

- have I ever sailed a VAGO? 
No

- would I ever want to? 
erm... No

I think it's best to have a go in as many types of boat as possible, you can be pleasantly surprised, eg. an enterprise looks like it would be heavy and unresponsive, but go and sail one they're quite the opposite.

Originally posted by turnturtle


- If I was looking for boat with similar spec to a VAGO what would I buy?
V3000; then possibly the RS500

Your opinion, but I would at least try all three before shelling out!



Edited by allanorton
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 9:04pm

Originally posted by vagoowner

You're forgetting the fact that the V3000 requires a much lower level of skill to sail than a Vago XD.  Both are good boats but for different reasons so the V3K and Vago XD are not really comparable. 

That's the first time I've heard anyone suggest that difficulty of sailing a boat is a merit .  Normally, it's something you accept as a trade-off for a performance gain, but that's not the case here, whatever the present PY's tell you.



Edited by Medway Maniac
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 7:23pm
Could one of you explain why the Vago is regarded as trickier to sail than
the V3000. I assume I'm right in thinking the V 3000 is a lighter stiffer
version of this Laser 3000 we're currently using, which although quite
stable at rest, is very twitchy and super weight sensitive.

I have no experience of the Vago, but it has a lot more freeboard, is
wider, has a more rounded hull, and from all the outward appearance
looks to be a lot easier, I hadn't considered it until reading about it here,
I've already committed to the RS500, but it does have some merits to be
used on our beach, so why is it more difficult to sail?

What flaws does it have and how do they manifest themselves.

I'd still like to hear from someone critical or otherwise who's sailed the RS
500 for its alleged faults.

Edited by Graemef
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Sumo View Drop Down
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Posts: 144 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by vagoowner

Sailing them both. Send an intermediate helm & crew out in a decent wind in a vago xd and a v3000 and the Vago will be much more of a handful requiring sharper skills, closer to skiff style sailing.  Do the same with a Vago XD & 29er and the 29er will be the more tricky boat.  That's just how it is but doesn't mean one is better than the other; just different.   Which one of the bunch you prefer really doesn't matter but it is interesting to know why from people with experience of them not just a chip on their shoulder and can actually be helpful if you're trying to choose a boat.

I really don't understand the "mine is better than yours" pontification on this site much of which seems to be from people who have clearly never set foot in the boats on which they dish out their opinions and isn't always said with good nature. Pick the boat you like, let everyone else do the same and just appreciate the differences. So what if one is plastic and another is GRP, design for mid market is all about compromise so we all have to choose what is important to us and go for the boat that's the nearest fit.

 

Well said.
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vagoowner View Drop Down
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Posts: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Quote vagoowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 4:56pm

Sailing them both. Send an intermediate helm & crew out in a decent wind in a vago xd and a v3000 and the Vago will be much more of a handful requiring sharper skills, closer to skiff style sailing.  Do the same with a Vago XD & 29er and the 29er will be the more tricky boat.  That's just how it is but doesn't mean one is better than the other; just different.   Which one of the bunch you prefer really doesn't matter but it is interesting to know why from people with experience of them not just a chip on their shoulder and can actually be helpful if you're trying to choose a boat.

I really don't understand the "mine is better than yours" pontification on this site much of which seems to be from people who have clearly never set foot in the boats on which they dish out their opinions and isn't always said with good nature. Pick the boat you like, let everyone else do the same and just appreciate the differences. So what if one is plastic and another is GRP, design for mid market is all about compromise so we all have to choose what is important to us and go for the boat that's the nearest fit.

 
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Posts: 144 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by vagoowner

Originally posted by turnturtle

[QUOTE=NickA]whereas the v3000 comes from devon and costs less than the original laser 3000 did. 

you forgot to mention it's just a nicer boat than the other 2... technical specs; marketing crap & everything associated to one-side: IMHO it's just a better boat and I'd rather have a V3000 than either a 500 or a Vago.

You're forgetting the fact that the V3000 requires a much lower level of skill to sail than a Vago XD.  Both are good boats but for different reasons so the V3K and Vago XD are not really comparable.  Don't know about a 50 but I imagine it will be slightly faster and more refined than Vago XD, miles better than a V3K but you pay your money and make your choice. Which is why I'm swapping the Vago for a 29er which is better than all three for what I want.

And I have recently purchased a 59er, sheer bliss.
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vagoowner View Drop Down
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Posts: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Quote vagoowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

[QUOTE=NickA]whereas the v3000 comes from devon and costs less than the original laser 3000 did. 

you forgot to mention it's just a nicer boat than the other 2... technical specs; marketing crap & everything associated to one-side: IMHO it's just a better boat and I'd rather have a V3000 than either a 500 or a Vago.

You're forgetting the fact that the V3000 requires a much lower level of skill to sail than a Vago XD.  Both are good boats but for different reasons so the V3K and Vago XD are not really comparable.  Don't know about a 50 but I imagine it will be slightly faster and more refined than Vago XD, miles better than a V3K but you pay your money and make your choice. Which is why I'm swapping the Vago for a 29er which is better than all three for what I want.
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Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

As one who has sailed and raced both a Vago and a V3000...

Oh come on... I said otherwise identical boats. That means identical mast, identical sails, identical hull shape, identical foils, the lot... The Vago and the 3000 are not anything like that close together. The 3000 is 200mm longer for a start and that makes a huge difference.

Exactly Jim!

The vago is more a youngsters, family, sailing schools type boat, but does go surprisingly quick for what it is.

The 3000 is for a different market, but in 10 or so years time, it will be at the same place the laser 2 is now.

That depends on the class association and the builder as well as the boat.  Baring in mind the basic design must be getting on for 10 years old now. 

The Vago on the other hand. Whether that will stand the test of time/product lifecycle we shall see!
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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allanorton View Drop Down
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Posts: 228 		Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 12:38pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

As one who has sailed and raced both a Vago and a V3000...

Oh come on... I said otherwise identical boats. That means identical mast, identical sails, identical hull shape, identical foils, the lot... The Vago and the 3000 are not anything like that close together. The 3000 is 200mm longer for a start and that makes a huge difference.

Exactly Jim!

The vago is more a youngsters, family, sailing schools type boat, but does go surprisingly quick for what it is.

The 3000 is for a different market, but in 10 or so years time, it will be at the same place the laser 2 is now.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 10:31am

Originally posted by JimC

 Are you sure about 40 points?

Just my impression, but it was a clearly-noticed impression, also by crews used to the older boats. The Winder got onto the plane appreciably sooner.

Not sure it's clapping out that's at fault with older Fireballs, more that the old grp boats were never that stiff even when new, and that goes for panel stiffness (hull drag) and rig loads (rig efficiency). I don't think you could put a modern rig on an new 'old' boat and get the rig tension now required.

Those differences then are similar to those between gpp sandwich and rotomould....
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