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Laser with a carbon mast??
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 10:36am
I've said before that the rudder could be significantly improved by setting the leading edge vertical.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 10:34am
A lot of people don't seem to understand that the 'rudder' on a Laser isn't there to steer the boat, it's there to let you know you're not keeping the boat flat enough.
Fitting a 'better' rudder would make it much easier to sail the boat badly and slowly.
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:51am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

this.... in fact, there was a time when I considered buying an MPS rudder and stock and converting it for use on a Rooster 8.1 setup for club racing.  It wouldn't have been a bad boat, for a fraction of the cost of something a lot nicer.

the whole rudder thing is so funny as a ex-owner and sailor of this class, it is, IMO, by the far the crappest element of the boat (after the loopy controls but before the bendy spars and stretchy sails) and yet it's been kept, unchanged, pretty much since the early days.  The first L*ser I sailed had wooden tiller, no UJ, a swivel jammer and wooden grab rails in the cockpit and the old bailer (so that dates me) but it still had that exact same profile, raked back, too-small rudder blade and stock as you get today.  I'm all for OD and control but keeping something bad for 30+ years which is so easily and relatively cheaply replaced, baffles me.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 1:01pm
£500+ for a composite spar is perhaps value added to the boat.
Plus it saves £100 for a replica spar every couple of years for some people, and possibly £100 for a sail repair and maybe even stops an expensive weekend being ruined by predictable gear falure.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 11:37am
Originally posted by seasailor

it's that it costs upwards of £900 which, coupled with the cost of a carbon/composite top section, means that a Laser Radial mast costs some £1,500 quid, which is more than my boat is worth!

There's a calculation you have to make isn't there? If you regularly bend spars and have to replace them then it doesn't matter what your boat is worth, its still going to pay you to invest in the plastic spars - and in this case arguably it really is an investment because it would save money down the line. OTOH if you've never bent a spar in your life and don't see yourself starting now then there would be no more point in buying a new plastic spar then a new tin one.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 22 at 9:32am
Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

this.... in fact, there was a time when I considered buying an MPS rudder and stock and converting it for use on a Rooster 8.1 setup for club racing.  It wouldn't have been a bad boat, for a fraction of the cost of something a lot nicer.
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 5:18pm
Tbh with out checking though three years worth of email I am not totally sure.
If I remember correctly it was in the 300g range.

PS. For anyone that’s missing iGRF and wondering what  is up to, he is busy telling someone on the Solution dinghy fb page to STFU.  LOL.
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 5:07pm
As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by eric_c

Originally posted by Grumpycat

....
It’s only the top section and it is designed to replicate the same mast bend so the only real difference is the the fact it weighs a bit lighter ( and before a ILCA sailor comes on and says it weighs the same as the old ali section . This was confirmed to me in writing by the Australian manufacturer  Smile )

....


Does this refer tot he official ILCA composite spars, which have been around maybe 7 years?, or maybe to the unofficial ones which a certain well known spar maker was selling before that?

The weight of the ali spars can vary, 'off the shelf' ali tube is not that finely toleranced.

The official ILCA top section. The lighter weight has also been confirmed on Performance Sailcraft Australia fb page .
Personally I don’t think there is any performance advantage for the average ILCA sailor but I do know a couple of sailors that are racing against ILCA sailors using them that think there is a very small performance gain in certain conditions. Could just be in their own minds though  LOL

How many grammes lighter exactly?

It's not like a carbon Merlin mast vs a Proctor D is it?
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 22 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by seasailor


My problem with the carbon bottom section is not that it may or may not be slightly lighter, bendier or whatever, it's that it costs upwards of £900 which, coupled with the cost of a carbon/composite top section, means that a Laser Radial mast costs some £1,500 quid, which is more than my boat is worth! 

Think yourself lucky the two piece mast for my D-zero is a lot more than that and I don’t have the freedom of picking up second hand class legal ali spars or buying new replica spars .  Wink


Edited by Grumpycat - 20 Apr 22 at 12:56pm
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