New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Class proliferation...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Class proliferation...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 10>
Author
Old Timer View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Jun 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 370
Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Class proliferation...
    Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 10:07pm
Is the Tasar dumped that heavy wing rotating mast for a carbon pole it would be perfect. 
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 9:15pm
There have been loads of attempts to create a 2 person Laser. I guess the Laser 2, aptly, was the most successful for a long time, but suffered more than anything else when the asymmetric revolution kicked in. How much of that was Laser itself killing the boat?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 7:59pm
Spot on Jim. There's some right sorry cases out there too ready to make themselves feel big by scorning a newcomer's pride n joy. 
edited for precision 20.48.


Edited by Do Different - 12 Feb 19 at 8:48pm
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Just as windsurfing was the first part of sailing to go down the blind alley of technological overshoot, it could be the first part of the sport to realise its error and return to promoting the simple, accessible, cheap part of the sport as the main course, with the occasional side plate of spicy high speed stuff for those who like it.

I think the manufacturers were there some years ago by and large. Of the former big 3 only RS still sell a performance boat. A big challenge, perhaps, is to stop existing sailors mocking the entry level boats and making their purchasers feel excluded before they start.
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 9:29am
Originally posted by iGRF

The problem as far as I saw it, was that during the nineties dinghy sailing caught the windsurfing disease which started with what we then called dedicated slalom boards, it then followed an ever increasing trend to the margins of wave and high wind sailing. Dinghies headed in the direction of ever increasing performance and elitism in boats that could only really be enjoyed by experts. This all happened long before I came along and did my bit to moan and highlight it. I'm testament to exactly what's wrong, it's taken me now, over ten years to become a middle of the road club sailor with occasional moments in the sun. Heaven help anyone coming from a world with no experience of sailing, what happens to them? For the most part those I've witnessed endure the lower echelon of the laserati. Is there a pathway for fresh adults who've made the decision to sail? Can't say I've noticed one, I guess some clubs do their bit, but there doesn't appear to be any hard and fast formula, best we do is push the boat out and attract some leisure cruisey types, very difficult to get them racing. Racers come only from the squad fallout and maybe returnees, all steeped in the way it was/is. So society may have changed but dinghy sailing hasn't in any way that would attract those necessary new adults in my view.

Very, very true IMHO. Arguably what stopped boat sailing from suffering the same dramatic crash as windsurfing is the resistance from club sailors, clubs and classes. Windsurfing lacked the same structure of strong clubs and independent class associations, and also attracted more early adopters - who will by definition soon go off and adopt something else.

The "lower echelons of the Laserati" approach seems to be working better than any other approach I know of, as far as attracting new adults. The numbers seem to show it, and from an anecdotal point of view my little club has tripled its fleet in about 18 months by concentrating on Lasers. It used to basically be a Laser, a Byte C1 style mini Laser, a Tasar, and two different cats. Now we get up to nine or ten Lasers, two or three cats and a Tasar. The Laser offers a cheap, simple and tough introduction and we get plenty of close and fun racing.

Perhaps one of the real gaps is a dead simple two-person Laser type. Much as I love the Tasar, it's more of a sophisticated machine and not as easy for beginners. I s'pose the 200 comes closest.

To continue the windsurfer analogy, now that just about every brand has realised they went down a blind alley when they only promoted high performance kit and ended up creating "technological overshoot", many of them have banded together to promote the new version of the original Windsurfer, the Windsurfer LT. In considerably less than a year 800 have been sold, orders are pouring in for the northern hemisphere summer, there are events with over 100 starters, and the manufacturers are building a fourth mould to keep up with demand.

Just as windsurfing was the first part of sailing to go down the blind alley of technological overshoot, it could be the first part of the sport to realise its error and return to promoting the simple, accessible, cheap part of the sport as the main course, with the occasional side plate of spicy high speed stuff for those who like it.


Edited by Chris 249 - 12 Feb 19 at 9:30am
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 19 at 12:56am
Brilliant  Thumbs Up exactly how it should be (and much as it was back in the day). I think many clubs try to do exactly that and, while not all are as successful as Dell Quay obviously are, if they can attract the newcomers in the first place I suspect they will do their best to encourage them. Dinghy sailors are a friendly bunch, mostly.

And welcome to the wonderful world of sailing #stonefish  Big smile
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
stonefish View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 22 Aug 18
Location: United Kingdo
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Post Options Post Options   Quote stonefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Heaven help anyone coming from a world with no experience of sailing, what happens to them? For the most part those I've witnessed endure the lower echelon of the laserati. Is there a pathway for fresh adults who've made the decision to sail? Can't say I've noticed one, I guess some clubs do their bit, but there doesn't appear to be any hard and fast formula

This was me two years ago, 41 years old never been in a dinghy before but decided that I wanted to have a go at a fresh sport with a competitive option, living very near to Chichester harbour dinghy sailing seemed ideal.

I was nervous about getting into it, like you say there was no real clear pathway for an adult, I looked around a lot of clubs and almost decided to give up before I even started as there really was nothing much on offer for someone like me wanting to start from scratch.

I visited Dell Quay SC and I have to say it was the club that made a massive difference in me deciding to go for it and stick it out. They offered BOB (Blokes on Boats) social sailing, an introduction to racing course, they had a guest from the RYA come in and give a good overview of the rules, I attended workshops on assistant race officer and race officer training.  The regular guys racing were a huge help, they offered to go out during the week and practice race in small groups or one to one, practice starts, boat tuning etc.. The club runs beginner races for those that haven't won races before. Social media plays an important part in advertising the club, keeping member up to date and arranging stuff informally between like minded members.

I now race as often as I can and I love it, one of the best decisions ever.  If you want to get adults into sailing who have never sailed before forget the formal RYA level 1/2 etc etc courses at the beginning and get the existing club members to meet prospective members. Find out what they want, tailor some informal courses, make it as easy as possible to join and participate. The atmosphere makes a huge difference, friendly, helpful, competitive but not in an overly serious way leave that for class racing and open meetings. Clubs and their members need to change and become more flexible if they want to attract more racers which ultimately benefits those already racing.


Edited by stonefish - 11 Feb 19 at 11:01pm
Back to Top
DiscoBall View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 03 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So society may have changed but dinghy sailing hasn't in any way that would attract those necessary new adults in my view.


And - scarily - I agree with GRF... Shocked
Back to Top
DiscoBall View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 03 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

In fact the problem isn't cherry picking - it's that in many aspects of discussion about trends in dinghy sailing, one side has lots of evidence and the other side has none at all but will not admit it.


A quote from an article on cycling advocacy - "bringing facts to a culture war is like bringing a spoon to a knife fight"  Smile

If facts really held much sway then we'd long ago have started doing something about climate change and the 'war on terror' would be the 'war on sitting on your backside shoving doritos in your gob'.  Wink 

I'm not really convinced that even if our wonderful governing authorities had the will, they'd really be know what direction to go (though the Y&Y/RYA seminars are at least a start to the discussion). I seems that sports become popular from grassroots, then once you get governing bodies, elite paid athletes and oodles of paperwork, things are on a downward slide...
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 19 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Rupert

Does anyone actually have racing participation numbers over all aspects of dinghies, so club class racing, class opens, club handicap and open handicap, for now and "back in the golden age"?

I'm very willing to believe that numbers are down, but has it been a slow drip or catastrophic episodes?


So I’ve challenged those who make the claim but they’re never willing to show any leg...

Here's a portion of a database that includes a LOT of "leg", in terms of legwork like going to maritime museums and flicking through page after page of championship reports.

https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/11557/

https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/so-where-is-the-sport-today/

Those are fairly short term trends but the database goes back to the '60s. It's messy data but shows clear trends. The reason I haven't bothered to clean it up and put it out there is that people who present NO data will nit-pick anyone who has spent many, many, many hours obtaining data. 


sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy