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Olympic Classes for 2012
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NeilP View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 8:28am

If that's what they want, they'll do it. It was done for the 49er, after all! My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Council will overturn the Equipment Committee vote and keep the 470. IOC emphasis has apparently changed from media-friendliness to participation, which would favour the 470 as things stand. Have to wait and see, I guess.

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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 8:53am

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Nick Peters

as (we had been told) further trials would be held where new products or significant mods to existing classes would be considered alongside others for the high performance slot. How wrong and mis-informed we were.


It certainly certainly doesn't smell of cedarwood and frankincense... I've just been through the papers and worked out how it happened, but I still don't see how the 29erXX can qualify under ISAF regulations. It seems that to have got on the November list a class had to be on the submissions to the May conference, and all classes that were in commissions are in the list that can be selected from, even when, like the catamarans, there's no event left they can be selected for (at the moment anyway).

But Council will have to change a whole load of regulations to permit selecting a Class that isn't International, recognised or has been recommended by trials, and I do't think such changes are on the Agenda. If the XX does get through someone must have been doing some mightily effective lobbying...

There was a submission process prior to the November meeting but after the May one; I can't remember the deadline but we put the MPS forward.

There is no such thing as recognised classes now just ISAF classes or not; I believe the criteria was that any class submitted had to be capable of being an ISAF class by the games so no rules or regs have been broken or bent by the XX submission.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 8:54am
Originally posted by NeilP

It was done for the 49er,

The 49er was at least the clear and easy winner of the trials process... Its very difficult to work out what conclusions, if any, there were out of the Womens boat trials: each participant seems to think they did best, but the XX is not exactly setting the world on fire...
Originally posted by Guest#260

no rules or regs have been broken or bent by the XX submission.

Submission no, but selection yes unless there was a secret recommendation out of the trials... To quote again...
17. ISAF EVENTS
Selection of Classes for ISAF Events
17.1 Only ISAF Classes shall be selected for ISAF events.
17.1.1 Notwithstanding Regulation 17.1, the Council may approve a non-ISAF Class boat for ISAF Match Racing and Team Racing events other than Olympic events.
17.1.2 Notwithstanding Regulation 17.1, the Council may approve the selection of a non-ISAF Class boat that has been recommended as a result of an ISAF Equipment Evaluation.



Edited by JimC
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 8:56am

Coverage

http://sailjuice.squarespace.com/home/2008/11/12/29erxx-set- to-topple-the-470.html

 
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 12:22pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Costs of a 4 year campaign 470 Vs Tornado

...............

..............
http://www.tornado.org/

I think there is a very misleading pro-Tornado bias here.

The difference in cost is mostly based on allegedly needing to replace the 470 parts more often, but there's no way you need a new 470 hull every year and 4 centreboards and rudders. That's just nonsense. I also don't believe that one set of ropes would last you 4 years in a Tornado.

 

 
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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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These were real costs of a 4 year campaign as put together by someone who is a 470 World Champion and Tornado European Champion. Can you think of a better person to get costs off?

These figures have also been past Bundy etc for approval.

Edited by Jon Emmett
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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 12:48pm
Well there are lies, damned lies and statistics.  The cost of a championship winning campaign, whilst interesting, is only part of the story.  The barriers to Tornado racing are high - what is the cheapest you can pick up a secondhand T (with the new rig)?  Compare that to a mid-life 470. 
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 12:58pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Well there are lies, damned lies and statistics.  The cost of a championship winning campaign, whilst interesting, is only part of the story.  The barriers to Tornado racing are high - what is the cheapest you can pick up a secondhand T (with the new rig)?  Compare that to a mid-life 470. 

Yes, the costs to enter the T class is a little more; but you can buy a boat for around 13K GBP and you COULD take that to the next games ( );

470 will be about 1/2 the price and you will throw it away 12 months later. 

 

Games are roughtly 3 years time so you'll pay 50% for for the duration of the campaign; I assume the value of 470's drops quickly as they become uncompetitive; the Tornado does not.

 

Totally agree that you have to spend more INITIALLY to get into the T class, but resale values are better. 

Headline, initial cost is greater, cost-of-ownership is less. 

I always make my buying decisions on cost-of-ownership as IMO it is the only sensible way to do it.

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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by JimC

To quote again...
17. ISAF EVENTS
Selection of Classes for ISAF Events
17.1 Only ISAF Classes shall be selected for ISAF events.
17.1.1 Notwithstanding Regulation 17.1, the Council may approve a non-ISAF Class boat for ISAF Match Racing and Team Racing events other than Olympic events.
17.1.2 Notwithstanding Regulation 17.1, the Council may approve the selection of a non-ISAF Class boat that has been recommended as a result of an ISAF Equipment Evaluation.

Where are you quoting that from?
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 1:57pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

These were real costs of a 4 year campaign as put together by someone who is both a 470 World Champion and Tornado European Champion. Can you think of a better person to get costs off?

These figures have also been past Bundy etc for approval.

Yeah, I'd ask Nick Rogers and Nic Asher, both much better 470 sailors than this guy, whether or not they buy 4 new boats per Olympic cycle.

I'm fairly sure the answer would be no.
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