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New Boat from Laser?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 6:36pm

Originally posted by JimC

So what's the difference going to be between otherwise identical boats? 5 points of PY number? Maybe 10 points tops? About the same performance difference you'd get from making the hull 3 inches longer...

If you don't want a thermoplastic boat for another reason - ie you don't like the idea, - in the same way that other folk will only have varnished wood boats - then that's fine, but what I'm saying is that when you've made the decision to buy a boat that is in that sort of performance bracket anyway then there's no rational justification for making a small difference in performance a deciding factor.

As one who has sailed and raced both a Vago and a V3000, I can tell you that the difference in performance is a heck of a lot more than you're suggesting. I'm sure that absolute performance will differ by more than you quote, but more important, the quality of the sail is absolutely different. Think Lotus Elise versus MGF (not that I want to slate the MGF, but I don't want to use a boat example and start another class war!)

Try both boats, Jim, and give us your verdict.
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MainlySwimming View Drop Down
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Originally posted by feva_sailor

Originally posted by MainlySwimming

Getting slightly back to the specific point...does anyone know anything about the new boat. Is the 'spy photo' accurate (or are the foot loops just to carry it around!!).  Will it just be a plastic Stratos, or something more fun?


 



as i said i think its going to be similar to a topper vibe or a rs feva.

errr....wouldn't that be a Pico??  And isn't the spy photo (which of course could be something else entirely) a lot bigger than that? 
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NickA View Drop Down
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Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 6:47pm

Too big to be a feva clone - though laser's stable lacks one; and they've been refusing to develop a decent 2 handed rig for the pico, which is too small anyway.  Whilst I sure laser's feva will be on the way, surely this beast is a plastic stratos - the stratos is a good family / picnic boat that's great fun on the sea, but its REALLY expensive - perfect rotomould territory.

The toe loops are a mystery though aren't they.  Two close together for twin trap, surely.  Maybe its so one unconfident trapeze artist can put both feet in  ?



Edited by Mark Jardine
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laser47 View Drop Down
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or a really touchy feely helm and crew
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Posts: 767 		Post Options Post Options   Quote feva_sailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 6:58pm
i dont think that picture is of a laser.i think its something else.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

As one who has sailed and raced both a Vago and a V3000...

Oh come on... I said otherwise identical boats. That means identical mast, identical sails, identical hull shape, identical foils, the lot... The Vago and the 3000 are not anything like that close together. The 3000 is 200mm longer for a start and that makes a huge difference.


Edited by JimC
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 10:51pm

Ah, I misinterpreted 'identical' as 'similar'. Thought we were still on the Vago v 500 v 3000 subject, and they are superficially 'similar' in dimensions.

Taking your point, what's the difference between an old single-skin Rondar GRP Fireball and a new stiff Winder? No more than the difference between rotomould and GRP sandwich, surely? I'd put that difference at 30 PY points at least, probably 40. And you feel it instantly!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 5:34am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Taking your point, what's the difference between an old single-skin Rondar GRP Fireball and a new stiff Winder? No more than the difference between rotomould and GRP sandwich, surely? I'd put that difference at 30 PY points at least, probably 40. And you feel it instantly!


The fireball PY has been pretty static over the years. Its dropped 6 points since 1985. If your estimate is correct then an old Fireball - if it were given a brand new rig, and that's a very big diffrence - should be given by clubs a PY of around 1020 - mych slower than a Buzz and in Tasar/Merlin territory. This is also the same adjustment that the Merlin class considers correct for a 1970 boat with all the develpment in between, and suggests that there's something about the Fireball that makes them clap out faster than any other boat in the universe. Are you sure about 40 points?
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Sumo View Drop Down
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Posts: 144 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 9:09am
Originally posted by MainlySwimming

Getting slightly back to the specific point...does anyone know anything about the new boat. Is the 'spy photo' accurate (or are the foot loops just to carry it around!!).  Will it just be a plastic Stratos, or something more fun?

 

I got the impression from Jo Richards that it would be larger than a Vago, but still fun to sail and in a similiar style. I would expect something more Xenon than Vision or Omega, so not a plastic Stratos.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 06 at 10:31am

Originally posted by JimC

 Are you sure about 40 points?

Just my impression, but it was a clearly-noticed impression, also by crews used to the older boats. The Winder got onto the plane appreciably sooner.

Not sure it's clapping out that's at fault with older Fireballs, more that the old grp boats were never that stiff even when new, and that goes for panel stiffness (hull drag) and rig loads (rig efficiency). I don't think you could put a modern rig on an new 'old' boat and get the rig tension now required.

Those differences then are similar to those between gpp sandwich and rotomould....
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