Another What Boat Thread

Originally posted by Graemef Originally posted by turnturtle Originally posted by ssailor   trouble is we cant find a boat for him!  try The Marchioness or The Herald of Free Enterprise.... Noo that's funny. Isn't it funny? Woa wait a minute they weren't sailing boats were they? Didn't folk die on those boats. My its complex humour here. So now lets get this straight rather than have a newcomer to swell and enliven the ranks of yellow booted old t**sers you'd rather they died on board the Marchionesse or Herald of Free Enterprise. Is that correct? Or have I missed something? No wonder no-one designs decent boats for y'all. Sicko's

You may get the record here 13 posts and banned !

I'm not quite sure what has got you in such a mood that TT has decided he doesn't likr you but he's one of the good guys on here, so I think I'm going to have to look through the whole thread !!

I like this thread. It's pleasantly contensious.  Keep going graham!

Asymetric, pivoting centre board.  The perfect boat exists.  The wonderful Laser Vago - developed in accordance with the wishes of the masses.  Unfortunately it's generally thought to be crap.

'tis true dinghies develop more slowly than windsurfers - they cost more, so people don't change them so often.  Evolution takes longer for things with long life spans.  Yachts (apart from billionaires yachts) develop even slower. 

I'm truly thankful for the windsurfer as its given dinghy development a kick up the proverbial and better still promoted the idea that blasting is (sometimes) more fun than racing and going fast is (usually) more fun than knowing lots of rules.

Still think grahemef should just spend his cash on more kit for his 3k.  If he wants to knock some weight off, Vandercraft might even build him just a hull?  But it IS a bit small for two big people if they both have to sit in (force 3 and below).  Get one each perhaps?

You're right about the 3k stuff Nick, obviously  .

But exotics like Moths apart, in what respect have windsurfers contributed to dinghy technology? Upwind, a modern Fireball / 505 will still embarass most asymmetrics, size for size - I'm not convinced 'modern' rigs produce more thrust/heeling moment.

Generally and especially downwind we've got more speed mostly through bigger sails and more beam (racks) to balance them (with all the attendant compromises) - hardly thanks to windsurfers, more to the Aussies?

Graham:  Crap ..... definition in case of Vago:

Being plastic rotomould - it's heavy for its size. 

The plastic is also flexy so you can't get much rig tension so the jib will "bag" sending the windspeed / force curve unstable in gusts. (note RS's comments about the feva and vision being plastic but the RS500 being GRP)

To keep the costs down (I presume, there's not other good reason), the Vago has a straight section mast which, despite a fatish topped sail, won't have very good gust response.

The hull is a nice flat bottomed planing type of thing, which is good for planing when flat to the water, but that means it behaves badly when heeled - a bit of a problem given poor gust response unless you're a good enough sailor to sail something faster.

The PY is artifically low - there's no way that's a PY980 boat... surely.

For the same money you can get a V3000 or an RS500

Having said which I nearly bought one but really thought the V3000 was a better and in the long term, cheaper deal.

Anything else?

The RS500 on the other hand might be pretty good and all the detractors are really knocking it because they don't want more classes of boat on the water as that will split up fleets and spoil tactical racing.  I think it will be a decent boat.  BUT it's heavier than the V3000 and the hull is basically a Vario hull which wasn't designed as a trapeze boat - hence harder to walk around on when single handing off the wire.  Also a bit too powerful for (my) single handing (skills).  Finally the bits will cost more because its an SMOD and RS will charge what the hell they like for sails etc.  The 3k is owned by the class association.

nuff said.

Mr Medway ....

The windsurfer has lead (debatably) to the moth's newer sail plans and carbon rigs.

But more traditional boats?  I see film sails on 5o5s and fireballs these days, but they were exceptionally good boats to start with.  Meanwhile you don't see many enterprises or flying dutchmen about.  The newer higher tech boats have pushed them aside.  Look at the RS600, 700 and 800 with their bent back carbon rigs and film sails - bit of windsurfer in there I think.

But it's also a matter of attitude - getting great performance out of a clinker built boat with a wooden mast and canvas sails took a lot of skill and effort.  The same performace with modern materials is much less bother.

PS:  RS400 = great boat, powerful and twitchy - like a turbo charged monster truck.  But needs some heft and tough on the old tummy muscles (guiness drinkers only need apply).  If lazy (like me) stick to the old wired supports!