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Tornado_ALIVE View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 7:30am

Sorry DS, this was not a personal atrtack at you but a reaction to the comment "Sailing would be better off not being in the olympics at all." which I am sick of hearing. You obviously have some knowledge in this area but a lot of people who pass comment are totaly oblivious to what happens in an Olympic campaign, how and where funding is available and how devlopments in the Olympic classes benifit other classes.

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

Its harder to win a world title than a olympic medal

Many in the Olympic circles may disagree with you here and some may agree. This is more personal opinion. I believe that whilst being equally difficult to win, an Olympic Gold would be a longer term commitment. I am sure Forbes would agree that a Gold was more difficult for him personaly as he has won most major Euro events including 6 World Chapionships, however a Gold has eluded him.

Also as you agreed there is a benifit to sailing being in the Olympic in regards to funding , coaching, etc . This level of funding resulting in the level of profesionalism teams are at now would not have been available to sailing if it was not in the Olympics...... It would have gone to another sport.

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

f sailng was not olympic then you would find that the level of sailing in most classes would increase as you dont have 6 people going for the 1 spot and they move to a class that is much more fun to sail.

I disagree with this.... I don't believe the level of competition would raise at all, however may drop. I know this sounds crazy but The Olympic classes are creating sailors with skill levels far beond what would be achieved by non profesional sailing. These skills and techniques are passed onto others in their respective classes (to a degree) and to other classes as current an ex Olympic Campainers and sailors from Olympic classes move into other classes.

Also you have to realise that these individuals would not be at the level thay are at now if it was not for Olympic development and funding.

Whilst the Olympics have benifited sailing, I do believe that the Olympics in not only sailing, has reached a very unhealthy level. No longer is it a competition for Ametures as it was originaly. Now you must be personaly very financial first, willing to put your career, relationships and life on hold for an oportunity you may never get. You must also spend you own $$$ to campaign, then achieve top 10 results before you even see any funding from our national bodies.

 

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

I race a FD and that class was Olympic and now it is a class that has great racing with still good numbers at a world title. Once I said FDs should be Olympis, I think I was wrong. The class does not need it , its great how it is

This may be the case with the FD class, however I have doupts about the future of the Tornado class if it was dropped or if sailing was dropped from the Olympics. Olympic develoment has increased the quality of the Tornado to levels unmatched by any other production catamaran and the price also reflects this.... Some 50 to 80% more expensive than an equivilent size boat. However the Tornado was originaly designed as the Multihull class for the Olympics, so members of the class can not winge about the classes inclusion..... If you don't like it, do not join the class.

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

I know that my helm and I have considerd doing another Olympic campagain. To do that we looked at the type of boats we could sail.....tornado (maybe),

In Oz, take a look at the F-18 class..... Campaign an F-18 here and either charter a T for off shore events or purchase a T and keep it in Europe. 2007 World Champs for F-18s are @ Vincentia and 2008 Tornado Worlds (last qualifing event) are in NZ. Expect to see quiet a few International teams in Oz and NZ over the next few years...... SIRs, Sail Melb, Sail Auckland.

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Tornado_ALIVE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tornado_ALIVE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 7:59am
Originally posted by dinghysolutions

Sailing would be better off not being in the olympics at all.

It absolutley $hits me to tears every time I here this comment and makes me realise how ill informed, closed minded and just plain greedy some people are.

I say greedy because those who make this comment only care about how it directly effects THEM in the imediate short term and is not appreciative of the long term direct and indirect gains our sport gets from an Olympic Games.

[/QUOTE]

DS, I am not insinuating that you personaly are greedy....  I do not know your position, thoughts or opinions on being and aspiring Olympic Athelete.  Shifting from SA to Y&Y regularly sometimes you forget where you are and forget to be a bit more tackfull.

This was ment as a general comment........ I do here this comment come up in plenty of posts and also on the beach from plenty of sailors including those in Olympic classes and most of them only think about how the Olympic funding and Olympic games imediatly effects them.  They do not see the big picture and how it is helping them in an indirect way.  To say that it is a negative to have sailing in the Olympics I believe is insulting all those who work so hard for our sport in the HP and Olympic scene.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 9:14am

If we look at the criteria below for the open single hander how would each class score?

Apart from the "Scope for development" the MPS has a tick in all the boxes and that COULD be accomodated by opening the sailmaker IF the class wanted to.

How do people think the Finn would score on those 5 points?

Fast?, "Buzz"?, Media Appeal? etc ...

These are the ISAF criterial.

Rick

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 7250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 10:00am
Look at the title of the document. That is just a submission to the meeting, not a final decision, and it relates to the 2008 games. Those classes have now been decided, so I'm not sure that document or your interpretation of it carries any weight at all.

I'm sorry, but I still don't think I've seen any convincing arguments as to why a change to the MPS would result in a better test of the sailors, that it would better reflect the type of sailing that people do and are likely to do in future, or seen any proper evidence that it would, of itself, substantially increase Olympic TV viewership.

Surely if skiff classes are the solution to the problem of TV audience appeal, then we should have already have seen a substantial benefit from having the 49er in the games. The 49er (and the turboed Tornado Sport) have been in for 2 games now. Has it worked? The continuing angst suggests that it hasn't, so logically adding another "exciting" skiff class isn't the solution.

Edited by 7250
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 10:35am

Originally posted by 7250

Look at the title of the document. That is just a submission to the meeting, not a final decision, and it relates to the 2008 games. Those classes have now been decided, so I'm not sure that document or your interpretation of it carries any weight at all.

I'm sorry, but I still don't think I've seen any convincing arguments as to why a change to the MPS would result in a better test of the sailors, that it would better reflect the type of sailing that people do and are likely to do in future, or seen any proper evidence that it would, of itself, substantially increase Olympic TV viewership.

Surely if skiff classes are the solution to problems of audience appeal, then we should have already have seen a substantial benefit from having the 49er in the games. Has it worked? The 49er (and the turboed Tornado Sport) have been in for 2 games now. The continuing angst suggests that it hasn't, so logically adding another "exciting" skiff class isn't the solution.

I have never said it is a better test - just a different test that would be more fun to watch.

The test is more a test of sailing ability rather than a mix of sailing ability and the ability to squeeze an extra 0.5% performance from the equipment.

From what was seen in the UK of the last 2 games I would say that TV coverage had increased; but that is probably due to the improved medal hall of Team GBR.

As for WW coverage of sailing I have no idea of the viewing/broadcasting figures - anyone know?

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 10:45am

Originally posted by Guest#260

The test is more a test of sailing ability rather than a mix of sailing ability and the ability to squeeze an extra 0.5% performance from the equipment.

That's a rather limited view of what "sailing ability" means.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Guest#260

The test is more a test of sailing ability rather than a mix of sailing ability and the ability to squeeze an extra 0.5% performance from the equipment.

That's a rather limited view of what "sailing ability" means.

Semanitics rather than limited view.

Our sport is complex with many skills required to win - different classes require different mix of skills.

Classes with controlled equipment e.g. Laser focus really on the sailors ability to sail the boat rather than the sailors ability to develop the equipment. That is the point I am making.

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 7250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 11:33am
Sorry Rick, but your implication that winning in the Finn is a function of ability to develop equipment is just totally wrong. There's almost certainly less variation in the gear used by top Finn sailors than in Laser masts or hulls produced by different regional manufacturers in that class.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 11:47am

Originally posted by 7250

Sorry Rick, but your implication that winning in the Finn is a function of ability to develop equipment is just totally wrong. There's almost certainly less variation in the gear used by top Finn sailors than in Laser masts or hulls produced by different regional manufacturers in that class.

I am not saying that, please read the posts ... I am saying that is PART of the challenge that is NOT part of sailing a Laser.

You can't have a sail development programme with North to develop a new cut Laser sail can you ... or a programme to develop different mast bend characteristics or a slightly different hull moldings ... all things that I am sure Ben did in his pursuit of gold whilst Goodison just went sailling.

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 06 at 12:11pm

Originally posted by 7250

Sorry Rick, but your implication that winning in the Finn is a function of ability to develop equipment is just totally wrong. There's almost certainly less variation in the gear used by top Finn sailors than in Laser masts or hulls produced by different regional manufacturers in that class.

Sorry but this is nonsense. The Laser sailors at the Olympics are PROVIDED with their kit. There is a massive difference in Finn gear (alllowed to compensate for different weights, conditions etc) and VERY small variations in laser kit. Read the quotes from Ben to that effect.

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