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Gfinch View Drop Down
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Posts: 67 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Gfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Race rules advice pls
    Posted: 09 May 23 at 6:18pm
What happens if you hit the committee boat, which is one end of the line?
This happened a few years back, when I was beating to the finish line, cross-tacking with the leading boat on the final leg.

During my final tack, there was a gust which made me heel more than anticipated and my mast touched the committee boat, but almost at the same time I crossed the line and received a finish.

I then did a 360 turn, and it was decided that instead of 2nd place I should be awarded 3rd, as in the time it took for me to do a 360, had I been racing still, the boat behind might have caught up.

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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 5:32pm
I wouldn't do anything, for the simple reason, I would never get in a position to have to give room at the mark. 

My opinion of boats that know they have to get to the finish line, is, they should get themselves in a position where they can get over, 'not' use the rules to force someone out of the way, causing them to lose a position that would have got 'them' over the line, could potentially have been a win.
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I have read through all the links off this thread, finish line more ambiguous than the start line. I personally wouldn't cut someone off, but I probably wouldn't change course to let them through.

If you wouldn't change course then you would cut them off by definition if they needed room.

Yeeha .... cowboy ...  Smile

You have to give room at a finish mark just like you do at every other mark. The exception is the start mark which is detailed.


Edited by Old Timer - 09 May 23 at 3:23pm
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by 423zero

I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks.

It would be an unnecessary complication, and the rule writers are very keen to keep the rules as simple as possible. Its very tempting, when writing rules (which is a much harder rask than people think) to make them very specific, but the more specific they get the more chance there is of loopholes. So rather than listing different types of mark RRS 18 applies to every mark with the one specific exception of start marks surrounded by navigable water - and note the navigable water part - it still applies, for instance on start marks at the edge of a channel that you can't sail the wrong side of.


Probably not rule 18. That's probably going to be a continuing obstruction, so it's going to be rule 19.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 2:04pm
Makes sense put that way, all marks except start marks (with navigable water). By turn marks I meant rounding marks, (I was doing two things at once).

Edited by 423zero - 09 May 23 at 2:04pm
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks.

It would be an unnecessary complication, and the rule writers are very keen to keep the rules as simple as possible. Its very tempting, when writing rules (which is a much harder rask than people think) to make them very specific, but the more specific they get the more chance there is of loopholes. So rather than listing different types of mark RRS 18 applies to every mark with the one specific exception of start marks surrounded by navigable water - and note the navigable water part - it still applies, for instance on start marks at the edge of a channel that you can't sail the wrong side of.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 1:25pm
Correct.   There is no ambiguity.

Rule 18.1 says

Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave
a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.

followed by four exceptions, (a) to (d), which are irrelevant here.

The Preamble to Section C then contains a further exception

Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable
water or at its anchor line from the time boats are approaching them to
start until they have passed them.

Rule 18 makes no distinction whether a mark is a 'turn' mark (whateverthat is), a rounding mark, a high mark, a low mark or any other sort of mark, as long as boats are required to leave it on the same side.

So the only relevant exception is a starting mark surrounded by navigable water.

A finishing mark is not a starting mark.

An outside boat is required to give mark room in accordance with rule 18.

Edited by Brass - 09 May 23 at 1:28pm
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 12:04pm
There doesn't appear to be a finish line specific paragraph, start line does. I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks. The paragraph if it is written should say marks either end of the finish line are treated the same as turn marks, even a shortened finish. No ambiguity in that, but I have probably missed something and happy to be corrected.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 9:13am
There are very few ambiguities in the RRS.

Please quote one or more passages from the RRS that that you think may give rise to doubts that a mark designating an end of a finishing line is a mark at which rule 18 does not apply to boats finishing.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:58am
I have read through all the links off this thread, finish line more ambiguous than the start line. I personally wouldn't cut someone off, but I probably wouldn't change course to let them through.
Robert
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