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Laser with a carbon mast??

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser with a carbon mast??
    Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 5:29pm
^ in fairness to the Laser, when I first saw one and subsequently owned one in the mid seventies the Laser was the most awesome boat compared with anything else that was around, I spent hours reaching back and forth with big smiles.  Ok there were challenges, notably the main sheet on the corner of the transom, but I will here no bad of Bruce Kirby’s creation.  


All that is bad has come about by the poor direction taken by Performance Sailcraft.  Not sure the Olympics did the class a favour either but hey ho. 



I quite liked the simple kicker and controls and the creativity required to make them effective … including having a mate hang off the end of the boom while I pulled the kicker on.


Edited by davidyacht - 23 Apr 22 at 5:30pm
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
I speak as a man that sailed a Laser and Laser Radial for over 20 years . 
The Laser is many things ,it has great class racing , a good class association, and is stunning value for money second hand. BUT it’s not a awesome boat , the world has moved on and it hasn’t  enough.  It’s a 1960s Mini Cooper in a 2022 world . Yes it’s now fitted with air con and it’s fitted with a better radio, but no one’s looked at changing the engine, steering or brakes  LOL Smile

Does that matter, speed comes from length it has that vs Solo, Solution, Streaker. It’s comfy down wind, no kneeling vs Aero, Blaze, Super Nova. Easy to right and recover vs Solo, OK. Yes the mast and sail are from the 60s  but it’s a small price to pay for the long list of advantages. Steering is fine, like all dinghies windward heel to head up leeward heel to bear away with a wiggly thing at the back to aid when needed 


Does it matter ? If your young ,fit and class racing is the most important thing in your sailing world , of course not .
But if your like me and your sick to death with people like you telling you every problem you have with a laser is a lack of technique, yes it does. 
So I’ve changed class and l no longer had any of these problems with any of the other boats I have own since,  funny that isn’t ?  LOL Wink


Edited by Grumpycat - 23 Apr 22 at 4:43pm
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 3:37pm
.... It’s comfy down wind, no kneeling vs Aero, Blaze, Super Nova.

But will still stuff your knees in time anyway .... Wink  But we were always told it was 'poor technique' of course...  Yes of course ....Well they would say that, always did back in the day.  Don't like kneeling in the alternatives mentioned ?  ... just get some decent kneepads. There you are solved it for you !  Volleyball ones can be very good and a third of the price of many inferior 'marine' ones btw.    The Laser is still around and will be for a while yet - but it is never going to tackle some very basic and inbuilt design faults and niggles.... that would risk making all earlier ones worth even less.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 1:40pm
well, I got pretty close to buying another Laser recently - but then I looked at the competition I'd be sailing against... only one other guy looked north of 70kg and 5' 6; given all the racing is usually in the mornings before the wind picks up, I decided an eBike would be better value for money.

Ultimately you buy a Laser to race against other people - but sometimes you have to accept when you're just not going to fit in and the racing's not for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 9:29am
Originally posted by 423zero

Don't forget the main sheet catching under the corners, the vertical sides of the cockpit.


When you get down to it, I can't think of a single part of the boat that isn't pretty awful.
As a boat, it wants a clean sheet of paper, design something better.

But we excuse all that between the 1 minute gun and the finish line.
Because all that matters is racing the other boats.
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 6:33am
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
I speak as a man that sailed a Laser and Laser Radial for over 20 years . 
The Laser is many things ,it has great class racing , a good class association, and is stunning value for money second hand. BUT it’s not a awesome boat , the world has moved on and it hasn’t  enough.  It’s a 1960s Mini Cooper in a 2022 world . Yes it’s now fitted with air con and it’s fitted with a better radio, but no one’s looked at changing the engine, steering or brakes  LOL Smile

Does that matter, speed comes from length it has that vs Solo, Solution, Streaker. It’s comfy down wind, no kneeling vs Aero, Blaze, Super Nova. Easy to right and recover vs Solo, OK. Yes the mast and sail are from the 60s  but it’s a small price to pay for the long list of advantages. Steering is fine, like all dinghies windward heel to head up leeward heel to bear away with a wiggly thing at the back to aid when needed 

Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 22 at 6:17am
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
I speak as a man that sailed a Laser and Laser Radial for over 20 years . 
The Laser is many things ,it has great class racing , a good class association, and is stunning value for money second hand. BUT it’s not a awesome boat , the world has moved on and it hasn’t  enough.  It’s a 1960s Mini Cooper in a 2022 world . Yes it’s now fitted with air con and it’s fitted with a better radio, but no one’s looked at changing the engine, steering or brakes  LOL Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:48pm
I'm looking after 4 club Lasers, the thing I want for them would be aluminium extrusion foils like our Fevas, Picos and Bugs. This would cut the maintenance down and make them more viable.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by getafix

As an ex-L*ser sailor who would never go back, I do find it still highly amusing that through all the tortuous tussling and grumpily accepted updates "they" have fixed the crappy mast, sail (ish) and controls and still not gotten rid of that total sh1tb0x which is the rudder .... it would be a far more pleasant experience to sail if you could steer properly, particularly in stronger winds

The mistake many make, depending on their weight is thinking they are 20 fit enough to sail  full rig. The Radial / ILCA 6 is an awesome boat for the sub 75kg sailor. Fraction of the cost of an Aero, Solo etc and including regular sail renewal ownership still low, the changes in design have been minimal over the history of the class. I can go to an event within a days drive at least every two weeks in the season. Fantastic quality training frequently available plus more training media most or classes combined. If you’re having issues with handling a Laser then you definitely need to sailing Laser, if you are finding the rudder too small you’re doing something wrong. It’s not the boat it’s the nut on the tiller. As for carbon top mast, when I bend my alloy one I’ll get one still 1000s still in the bank compared to the alternative classes. I could, but won’t sell mine tomorrow and including two new sails and a few other bits cost less the £50 an month over two year 
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 22 at 12:29pm
Don't forget the main sheet catching under the corners, the vertical sides of the cockpit.
Robert
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