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JimC 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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 Topic: DilemmaPosted: 01 Aug 19 at 12:49pm |
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When in doubt follow the written rules and your conscience, whichever is more restrictive.
The object of the exercise is to have fun, so if either boat is not having fun then its time to think about what you are doing. Some people love a boat for boat scrap, whether they come out on top or not, some people hate it. Its a question really of being empathetic and considerate for your fellow human beings. Edited by JimC - 01 Aug 19 at 12:50pm |
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NickM99
Posting king 
Joined: 26 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 145 |
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Posted: 01 Aug 19 at 1:29pm |
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Interesting how views on this are divided. I agree with Jim.
There are parallels in other sports. In amateur rugby, so you try to "take out" legally the opposition's star player in a way he might not get up (or at least be slowed down?) The star player would probably regard that as part of the game. In amateur doubles tennis, do you target the weaker opponent (could be a woman)? Do you hit the ball hard at them at the net? Probably not. Edited by NickM99 - 01 Aug 19 at 1:30pm |
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craiggo
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Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 01 Aug 19 at 9:52pm |
Of course you would, its a competition and targeting weaknesses is part of the game. |
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OK 2129
RS200 411 |
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andymck
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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Posted: 01 Aug 19 at 9:56pm |
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But you don’t get to have a bigger racquet to do it with.
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Andy Mck
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Do Different
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Posted: 02 Aug 19 at 6:26am |
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Man, there's some twisting and what ifs coming out to play.
No dilemma in my mind. Handicap racing is by definition racing against the clock, therefore it is not an appropriate arena for boat on boat tactics. I always sail to sail my fastest race with the least impedance on other classes that I can practically achieve. Class racing is completely different, when at a travellers meeting boat on boat naturally occurs and is perfectly legitimate. |
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Sussex Lad
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 360 |
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Posted: 02 Aug 19 at 5:16pm |
You've hit the nail on the head there imo and just about every current division in western civilization at the moment is about empathy or lack of it. How seriously should we take sundays races? When folk are subject to all the crap of real life and slogging away at work all week with their only chance of escaping it briefly is with a good round the cans race on a sunday. It should be taken very, very seriously with a view to making it as good as possible for the maximum number of sailors........I reckon most people would be very unhappy about being sailed out of vital handicap race. |
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CT249
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 19 at 12:49pm |
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But why do people feel it's not appropriate to do boat-on-boat racing in handicap events? Yes, we should be considerate of our fellow sailors and try to make racing fun. But if one crew cannot use one characteristic of their boat (in this case its superior speed) to win, then why can another crew use another characteristic of their boat, such as its superior pointing or faster tacking? At my club we have a world catamaran champion and Olympic medallist who races his cat against Lasers on a light wind lake. Why is it OK for those of us on Lasers to do (legal) roll tacks and gain distance in the light and fluky stuff, but not for him to cover us? If I take out my cat or my Tasar I accept that I have a disadvantage in the drifters and short tacking when compared to the Lasers, so why can't the Lasers accept that they have the disadvantage that they may be covered? What's the big difference between using a boat's speed to win a club race, compared to (for example) using one's wallet to buy a faster boat of the same type as your rivals, or choosing a boat that has a better performance on PY on your waters? Aren't they all ways of using a boat's characteristics to win? In ocean racing there's a fair bit of boat on boat tactics despite the racing normally being on handicap, and it's accepted. Why are all the ocean racers wrong? What is appropriate for a club race is another question. Personally I think if you're good enough to dominate club racing then you normally should be off chasing bigger fish or trying to make club racing more competitive in a different way, but that applies whether it's class racing or handicap racing. Edited by CT249 - 05 Aug 19 at 1:05pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 19 at 1:45pm |
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Its very much down to the individual and the club ethos. Personally when racing the IC in handicap events I was perfectly comfortable with using its speed to get into clear air quicker, and by all means put a loose cover on the fleet if its tactically desirable. Use the ability to sail angles downwind to get to shifts, all that, just fine. Similarly on a startline the Lasers can use their ability to point to block me out, but I can use my speed to start in clear air at the theoretically wrong end to be in clear air in seconds,
What I wouldn't have been comfortable with would be to sail a much slower boat back down the fleet with boat on boat tactics, knowing that if she managed to get free I could just use the extra speed to get back and cover her again. Too much like shooting fish in a barrel for me. |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 19 at 2:22pm |
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Those last tow posts sum it up if the boats are close in performance then boat on boat is appropriate, if there is a wide difference then not so much. But the point has been made earlier, how much speed difference should there be before it becomes inappropriate? I'd say if you feel like you are taking the pi55 then you probably are.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Do Different
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Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 19 at 4:17pm |
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Completely with Jim and Sam on this, it's not difficult to grasp the difference.
CT. to my mind your arguments are just a lot of tenuous connections to justify being bit of a bad egg. |
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