New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Class proliferation...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Class proliferation...
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 10>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Old Timer View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Jun 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Class proliferation...
    Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Chris 249


The two-person Laser I was dreaming about would have had no spinnaker, no trap, and very minimalist jib sheet adjustment. It would have been, like the Laser, aimed at short tacking in light winds as well as blast reaching which is where the Laser II excelled, or brisk breezes where the Tasar is a delight. Perhaps it would have been more like a lighter, simple, newer round bilged Ent.
 

The closest I have sailed to that was the Icon. Sadly now fading into obscurity but was a simple boat to rig, easy enough to handle on shore and a very spritely performance for a 2 sailed boat. The only bit of complication was the dangly pole for the jib but most people would be able to work that out fairly quickly.

The Icon early death is a shame but the chopping and changing of builder and not having a big backer didn't help it off the launch pad ... 

Very hard for an small builder to establish a new class these days.
Back to Top
davidyacht View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 4:50pm
Guess it would make a nonsense of the aerodymically efficient rotating rig
Happily living in the past
Back to Top
Cirrus View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Oct 15
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 4:45pm
the complication being remembering to uncleat the pole at tack time as you used it on all points of sail in the Icon aside from upwind.

Not quite true .. You could use it upwind to adjust the back of the sail but this should have only ever been 'slight' and the boat could be easily tacked without  'dumping' it... ie as automatic as could be - set and forget.  Offwind they are fully adjustable to get just whatever angle / tension you want on the jib - and all you needed to do in a gybe was to release a single downhaul line  ... and pull it back on on the other side .. the pole automatically setting to the new side was a feature.  Much much simpler in most ways than a 'regular' jib stick and if explained to a newbie in advance almost foolproof... Pretty much standard practice now on Ents', N12's, Albacores and most other 2 sail racers .. and Icon.  I'm certain it could have been applied on the Tasar but they always seemed  determined to set the class rules in 70's style mixed concrete - so I guess it just won't happen any time soon.  Very low cost, very simple and better.   Pity.  Smile ....

Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by DiscoBall



Originally posted by jeffers

The only bit of complication was the dangly pole for the jib but most people would be able to work that out fairly quickly.


I think the dangly pole is far superior to a conventional one. For the newbie crews I've taken out in the Tasar the pole qualifies as 'most hated item'  LOL

I agree, the complication being remembering to uncleat the pole at tack time as you used it on all points of sail in the Icon aside from upwind.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
PeterG View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 12 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 823 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 2:01pm
One of my main reasons for fitting a dangly jib pole was that I frequently sail with relatively inexperienced crews. It took a little time to get properly set up, but now it is it's far easier and quicker for a new crew to use, and there's no chance of one fumbling and dropping it over the side (which happened in the past more than once). And as a bonus if I go out alone I can still boom the jib.
Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59
Back to Top
DiscoBall View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 03 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by stonefish

  
I was nervous about getting into it, like you say there was no real clear pathway for an adult, I looked around a lot of clubs and almost decided to give up before I even started as there really was nothing much on offer for someone like me wanting to start from scratch.

Great post. So true of starting out in any new sport, let alone one as complicated and obscure as sailing - it doesn't take much of a bad experience or being ignored at a club to make you decide to go and spend your time and money elsewhere. I think too many clubs have a 'sink or swim'attitude to newcomers.

Originally posted by jeffers

The only bit of complication was the dangly pole for the jib but most people would be able to work that out fairly quickly.


I think the dangly pole is far superior to a conventional one. For the newbie crews I've taken out in the Tasar the pole qualifies as 'most hated item'  LOL
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 10:52am
Originally posted by stonefish



Originally posted by iGRF

Heaven help anyone coming from a world with no experience of sailing, what happens to them? For the most part those I've witnessed endure the lower echelon of the laserati. Is there a pathway for fresh adults who've made the decision to sail? Can't say I've noticed one, I guess some clubs do their bit, but there doesn't appear to be any hard and fast formula

This was me two years ago, 41 years old never been in a dinghy before but decided that I wanted to have a go at a fresh sport with a competitive option, living very near to Chichester harbour dinghy sailing seemed ideal.
I was nervous about getting into it, like you say there was no real clear pathway for an adult, I looked around a lot of clubs and almost decided to give up before I even started as there really was nothing much on offer for someone like me wanting to start from scratch.
I visited Dell Quay SC and I have to say it was the club that made a massive difference in me deciding to go for it and stick it out. They offered BOB (Blokes on Boats) social sailing, an introduction to racing course, they had a guest from the RYA come in and give a good overview of the rules, I attended workshops on assistant race officer and race officer training.  The regular guys racing were a huge help, they offered to go out during the week and practice race in small groups or one to one, practice starts, boat tuning etc.. The club runs beginner races for those that haven't won races before. Social media plays an important part in advertising the club, keeping member up to date and arranging stuff informally between like minded members.
I now race as often as I can and I love it, one of the best decisions ever.  If you want to get adults into sailing who have never sailed before forget the formal RYA level 1/2 etc etc courses at the beginning and get the existing club members to meet prospective members. Find out what they want, tailor some informal courses, make it as easy as possible to join and participate. The atmosphere makes a huge difference, friendly, helpful, competitive but not in an overly serious way leave that for class racing and open meetings. Clubs and their members need to change and become more flexible if they want to attract more racers which ultimately benefits those already racing.


Well what a refreshing tale this is to read, thanks for posting, Congratulations on finding a great club, wouldn't it be great if their formula could be replicated across the country, with a little ad campaign for them to use in local newpapers to attract adult newcomers.. Wouldn't it be great if there were a joined up marketing initiative between the RYA and the Dinghy business backing such an effort.. Wouldn't it be great if we had someone at said governing body who even thought like this?


Edited by iGRF - 13 Feb 19 at 10:53am
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 9:27am
Maybe the Laser found a gap in the market that simply wasn't there in the 2 sail double handed market, which in the UK at least, and I suspect in other European countries too, was amply supplied with successful designs.

As for Laser 2s, most that I sailed were 2 sail, 3 string team racing boats. And awful they were...
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Chris 249


The two-person Laser I was dreaming about would have had no spinnaker, no trap, and very minimalist jib sheet adjustment. It would have been, like the Laser, aimed at short tacking in light winds as well as blast reaching which is where the Laser II excelled, or brisk breezes where the Tasar is a delight. Perhaps it would have been more like a lighter, simple, newer round bilged Ent.
 

The closest I have sailed to that was the Icon. Sadly now fading into obscurity but was a simple boat to rig, easy enough to handle on shore and a very spritely performance for a 2 sailed boat. The only bit of complication was the dangly pole for the jib but most people would be able to work that out fairly quickly.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 19 at 12:06am
The Laser had four sail controls, one sail, and no trap. The Laser II had about 12 controls, three sails, and a trap, and was aimed at experienced teens and young adults. The Tasar was designed as more of a high-tech machine, in terms of construction and rig and hull design. Both the Tasar and the Laser II were also aimed more at strong wind performance than the Laser. As Ian Bruce (who loved the boat, as do I) said that meant that when they took it to Toronto, for example, the huge Albacore fleet found that in a typical twilight race the much-hyped Tasar was no faster than the Albacore. And as a long-term and passionate owner and former class captain, I found it's not as easy to put beginners in a Tasar as in a Laser.

The two-person Laser I was dreaming about would have had no spinnaker, no trap, and very minimalist jib sheet adjustment. It would have been, like the Laser, aimed at short tacking in light winds as well as blast reaching which is where the Laser II excelled, or brisk breezes where the Tasar is a delight. Perhaps it would have been more like a lighter, simple, newer round bilged Ent.

Ian Bruce told me that he was very frustrated that the corporate managers who ran Laser killed off the Tasar after, IIRC, the cash crisis caused by the development of the delightful Laser 28 because he reckoned the Tasar had a great future, but in significant ways it was a very different boat to the Laser.

 


Edited by Chris 249 - 13 Feb 19 at 2:09am
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy