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Should members pay to race?
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should members pay to race?
    Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:06am
Originally posted by 423zero

Sailing is too difficult, that's what I hear from people who do courses and drop out, nothing to do with time or money, pay a couple of hundred quid for a course and you still can't sail and still keep getting stuck in irons.

and how often is that becasue the  training  and/or the craft are not up to scratch ... 

I really do wonder how some DI s passed level 5  nevermind got it endorsed  for  pre-entry 
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:12am
I guess that every club is different, so the same solutions will not work in every situation, but it would seem that club's need to establish formats to suit their members, and perhaps established formats don't work for changing demographics.

When I sailed on a pond, we had two or three races a day with a lunch break in between morning and afternoon races, with the majority doing at least two of the races, but if you look at the results data for some club's there are clear "morning" groups and "afternoon" groups.  

Would you be better having shorter series but with two back to back races for today's time poor family persons?

And sorry to rake up this old chestnut, but back in the day, the trip to our sailing club was a family day out ... with youngsters racing Cadets whilst dad and mum sailed Merlins or 12's ... now the youngsters go squad training and mum and dad do the driving; so you could hit both nails on the head.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:24am
Zippy RN, 
My club uses Toppers, Topper Topaz and Laser Bahia, GP 14, etc, all fairly new, lightly used standard boats, we use our own SI and DI's, but more often than not we employ the services of a professional instructor, membership take up from RYA level 1&2 abysmal, more members from "Push the boat out".
would be interesting to find out figures for RYA training, what percentage continue sailing, join a club etc.
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 12:41pm
its all about getting the sailors to communicate with each other, within and outside of their fleets.

we use whats app to chat as group within our musto fleet at one club, we dont race all that often but we train together when we can and keep the chat alive between times.  

on top of that we have a skiff facebook group for the other club which helps organise training and racing, then we have an entire river skiff group that aims to bring club fleets together for open events and training on the river as a whole.

we've grown a small fleet of RS800's and half a dozen RS600's in a year with other odds and sods all sailing more often and more importantly together.  We dont always race but we can all do with more training time anyway!

i know our our novice sailors at bsc started up only a few short years ago, use the club forum to chat and organise, and now have the largest and most consistent fleet and the best cakes too, they keep it sociable and race / train / cruise in their own fleet and join in with the old school racing too.  its been great to watch and a really good example to follow for getting participation up.

there is scope to i believe to also add buy out options for duties and or perhaps reductions for doing extra duties to membership which may encourage, but start with talking to the fleet not charging them to sail.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Would you be better having shorter series but with two back to back races for today's time poor family persons?
And sorry to rake up this old chestnut, but back in the day, the trip to our sailing club was a family day out ... with youngsters racing Cadets whilst dad and mum sailed Merlins or 12's ... now the youngsters go squad training and mum and dad do the driving; so you could hit both nails on the head.


Easy to blame squads etc, but I guess that was all back in the day when 'the man of the house' got to choose where family leisure time would be spent.   The kids would be pushed afloat crying and cold- 'nothing a woolly jumper couldn't put right' and if 'er indoors' didn't like getting wet, well then she could jolly well pull her weight on Galley Duty.

My Mrs thinks sailing clubs, in general, are the pits for non-sailors.... especially the inland ones. I can relate as I find stables on a par, except I'd probably say the old man damp kit probably smells worse than freshly shovelled horse sh*t.

Edited by turnturtle - 06 May 17 at 2:53pm
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Poole Pirate View Drop Down
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Posts: 15 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Poole Pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 4:58pm
Maybe a way of looking at it is that the total cost to belong and race is what it is and feel if it gives me lots of options to sail and belong then I happy with my choice
We have non sailing members who do not pay for my racing and I think should not either. They have helped the club get to what it is today in many ways and now they still feel like being members to stay a part of the club and also help to run it.
We also have some social members as we have something for them to enjoy, a nice view and a great club house with great food and drink.
We need these people, they help to pay for the cost of running the club and in some cases have dug deep to help to continue to improve the club for me as well.
I look at them and wonder what they get from it but I thank them anyway.
I will stay a member as long as i can afford to but when i cant I leave. I feel part of my club, time and money will tell how long for!
As for turn outs I feel that the one thing that helps is the availability of a crew or the option to sail a single handed boat. So many people want to helm so crews are hard to come by. 
We have class racing only, so it can be hard to prize young people away from the fun or fast boats, Who do come and sail are the older members in the faster keel boat  F/F is ours. Ex dinghy sailors who want something a bit steady but has great racing, this fleet is growing each year.
We have so much choice in this world and commitments also, you just have to find what you can to enjoy and the time you to do it and hope you find more people to enjoy it with you. 
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by davidyacht

Would you be better having shorter series but with two back to back races for today's time poor family persons?
And sorry to rake up this old chestnut, but back in the day, the trip to our sailing club was a family day out ... with youngsters racing Cadets whilst dad and mum sailed Merlins or 12's ... now the youngsters go squad training and mum and dad do the driving; so you could hit both nails on the head.


Easy to blame squads etc, but I guess that was all back in the day when 'the man of the house' got to choose where family leisure time would be spent.   The kids would be pushed afloat crying and cold- 'nothing a woolly jumper couldn't put right' and if 'er indoors' didn't like getting wet, well then she could jolly well pull her weight on Galley Duty.

My Mrs thinks sailing clubs, in general, are the pits for non-sailors.... especially the inland ones. I can relate as I find stables on a par, except I'd probably say the old man damp kit probably smells worse than freshly shovelled horse sh*t.

In our case a fair number of those Cadets are still sailing today ... 40 or so years on, so it couldn't have been such a bad experience.

I take what you say about mum in the galley, and I think we moved on from there and in any case a fair number of mums sailed too.  BUT I really think that the family aspect is really important for clubs to embrace.  I joined one of what is perceived by some to be one of the finest dinghy sailing clubs in the country 25 years ago, lasted a couple of years before my wife got hacked off because the children were not allowed on the lawn.
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Oinks View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 10:35pm
If we had to pay a relatively small amount per race that paid for a designated club RO (or two|) I certainly wouldn't have a problem. Somebody perhaps retired but experienced in these things. Back to my kebab...
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:56pm
local university students, supplement their loans with fee from sailing club, train them to do safety or ood.
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 17 at 7:37am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Mountain Bike trail centres, Windsurfing centres, Snowdomes etc are all pay and play and offer a sustainable business model


Sustainable business model. Is that so?

My local MTB venue - closed down.

The vast majority of windsurfing centres that existed at one time - closed down.

There are only a handful of Snowdomes across the UK, creating a business case for more is hugely problematical and meanwhile, dry slopes everywhere are poorly maintained,  some have closed down and more will.
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