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The Tasar v the Icon

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Rod Porteous View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Tasar v the Icon
    Posted: 21 Sep 14 at 9:52pm
.Well where were all the icons at HISC Barts bash? We were super chuffed to have won in the tasar with 168 boats. The class still has life!The biggest buzz for us though was seeing all the kids out sailing with their mums and dads, six kids In a RS venture was a sight to behold!!
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 7:53pm
Both Tasars and Icons acquited themselves very well.  The conditons were 'challenging' enough for most and I think Rod's wind strength assessment under-estimated the power / wind speed around certain points of the course.  The downwind leg (many many miles  of it ! was one of 'sweaty plams' and a 'dry throut' in some of the wind against tide wave sets) but both Tasars and Icons seem to have survived without too much stress.

Interestingly the lead Tasar (8th) is up to try an Icon for a while now anyway .. and the lead Icon (10th) is an Ex-Tasar racer.  Both are great boats and imo both are still under estimated in the UK .. perhaps they are still thought a bit to different for some)..  Yes - we aimed for Tasar high wind performance and Phantom in the light stuff ... and hope those who put Icon down as really just another 'pond racer' give it a try.  It performs pretty well in both universes.

GRF did fine  ... despite decribing his loan demo boats non-stick as similar to a soap dish (easily sorted ) and I suspect an inadaquately balanced rudder (ditto).... perhaps we now approach a new era where it might just be the boat that needs a sort  'after all'   LOL  So well done Greame and crew (but imagine if we taught you how to 'do it' properly .. esp offwind).

Mike L.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by Rod Porteous

You came through below us like a train, my wife and I both said B@@@@@cks weve got the tide wrong.!! we should know better sailing in Chichester Harbour and done our home work before the event! We did really view it as a fun day out , but you know what happens the competetitive spirit takes over!!


The Icons looked great and bang up to date and looking forward to giving one a go

 

Interestingly we came third in class exactly the same position as when we last did the event!!


Yes I'm sorry about that, you deserved to beat us over the water as well as on handicap, but we had another battle with some local lads, the Bandit Brothers in their Buzz, we'd just scalped them and they were after our blood, we'd taken them mainly because they were ignoring the tide, in between their desire to cool off, unfortunately in showing them the way, up went their kite and down they came, so it's another pint I've lost and we're both assym kite sailors really and all this goose wing soaking is the devils work.
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Rod Porteous View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 4:07pm

You came through below us like a train, my wife and I both said B@@@@@cks weve got the tide wrong.!! we should know better sailing in Chichester Harbour and done our home work before the event! We did really view it as a fun day out , but you know what happens the competetitive spirit takes over!!

The Icons looked great and bang up to date and looking forward to giving one a go
 
Interestingly we came third in class exactly the same position as when we last did the event!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac


Originally posted by iGRF

No it's not just me, the changing rooms are full of folk who think you've screwed things up royally.

Which is why you need to resort to maths and physics rather than perceptions and averages.

Bottom line, Jim, is that people are just too thick/in a hurry to get on top of the maths and prefer to go with wishful thinking instead.  Which probably accounts for the consistently poor governments that this country 'enjoys'.


I do so hope you don't include me in that insult..



Oh and I'm going to vote UKIP maybe they'll put a stop to Banjo playing up river creeks.

Oh and Rod I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, just as I was amazed at the speed you came through us up wind and yes we were stuffing it at that point, I was having a bit of a bad moment and using the tide to do the work, both you and the other Icon took us then.

But we did recover and you did sail too high (along with lots of folk) and we sailed low and punched less tide on the way out and I can't describe the joy it gave me getting someone as obviously good as you back, I'm sure it would never happen in none tidal water. I also did think about sailing assym down wind, indeed I set off at the start headed out to sea on port, but none of the other icons chose to do that so I followed their lead after a starboard hander forced a gybe on us.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 3:51pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by iGRF

No it's not just me, the changing rooms are full of folk who think you've screwed things up royally.

Which is why you need to resort to maths and physics rather than perceptions and averages.

Bottom line, Jim, is that people are just too thick/in a hurry to get on top of the maths and prefer to go with wishful thinking instead.  Which probably accounts for the consistently poor governments that this country 'enjoys'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rod Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:31pm

After about four hours of racing around the Isle of Sheppy Tasars finished 9, 16, 29, 30 and 31, with Icons finishing 10, 19, 22.

 

So is this the first real Tasar Vs Icon comparison, long race variable wind strength, flat water waves and tide.?

 

For what it’s worth, I make the following observations as the lead Tasar. After suffering a late night, excessive vino and early departure our start line performance was some what embarrassing!! We spent the dead down wind leg across the top of the Isle in catch up mode!

 

In about 14-16 Knots dead down wind our challenge was to keep the bluff bow out of the wave in front, careful surfing with 45 degree course changes gave huge gains. I suspect the Icon handled these conditions better and gradually pulled away, but not much until we started to round the top NE corner where on a broad reach they dramatically pulled away. We are too heavy for the tasar with the lighter weight tasar crews catching up. We noticed one Icon crew was standing for the entire down wind leg, that must have been a challenge!

 

Once beating in about 16-18 Knots we gradually hauled in the two rear icons, red is clearly fast! Not running aground, playing the shifts and clean air were paramount. The tasar planes freely up wind in 14 Knots of wind but must be in clean air and sailed flat. To keep in clean air over the years we have developed what we call our sling shot method of passing the “pinchers”. If we can’t get clear air and we are forced to pass rather than tacking off for clean air we encourage the lead pincher to pinch up at which time we ease the sheets bear off punch through the lee, accelerate and using the lift off the foils to come back up and onto our existing course. This is some times seen as sailing free, but pinching tasars is not fast. It seemed to us that the Icons were sailing excessively high and definitely not flat! I am looking forward to my try in one and think upwind I would trim the rig differently and sail it free and more importantly flat.

 

By the bridge, when the wind went light we were within two boat lengths of the red boat . Getting stuck behind about six cats and four other monos is not fast and we wasted at least 20 minutes, we wonder how the red Icon and Osprey got on? But that’s part of the fun of the event isn’t it? I suspect the bridge delay destroys true elapsed time comparisons.

 

Beating up the swale in failing wind saw the Icons very slowly catching , Deep reaching and running saw  them rapidly catching as we stayed too far out due to lack of tidal appreciation. There was no doubt the icon was faster in the failing wind , once rounding the corner on the run it was about keeping in the wind ribbons  and using the waves to accelerate. We were just pipped on the line by the chasing Icon.

 

The tasar probably had the advantage in the heavy wind and the Icon in the light, but that’s sailing. I looks to me that the PN for the Icon might be slightly harsh for the conditions we experienced on the day but suspect bridge delays were more significant!

 

We enjoyed it and the icons looked great.

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:10pm
No it's not just me, the changing rooms are full of folk who think you've screwed things up royally.

Which is why you need to resort to maths and physics rather than perceptions and averages.

The PYAG is totally discredited at grass roots level, to the point that if ever a discussion breaks out eyes roll and folk walk away, you are a hopeless case.

Just as you can't see why I don't 'get it' 'they' don't see why you're all as stupid as I might appear to be to you.

In my case, I don't matter, in your case you're supposed to be part and parcel of the governing body of a sport which time and again acts against the interest of boat owners in coastal clubs, and allows itself to be manipulated by folk with professional & commercial interest. (Overall winner Blaze Fire 1065, yeah whatever..).

Smell that? It's coffee grounds... wake up.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 1:13pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 12:41pm
Oh sure, but its not just him. The trouble is that its really hard to judge relative performance of classes on the water, and it is useful being able to take some real results and demonstrate how folks' perceptions can misdirect them. I'm surprised all 3 Icons finished above all the Tasrs on the water, usually classes are more mixed up than that.


Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 14 at 12:51pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 12:35pm
You'll never convince him, Jim.  He's immune to reason.
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