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Boats for sale
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V Twin |
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Hector 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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 Topic: V TwinPosted: 20 Apr 12 at 1:14pm |
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And yes, a bigger carbon rig would have been better - you skinflint!
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Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew) 49er 688 (with Phil P) RS200 968 Vortex (occasionally) Laser 2049XX |
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Hector
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 20 Apr 12 at 1:11pm |
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Hey Graeme - As I said I hope it does something really well and so leads a big advance of some sort. The retracting centreboard on a windsurfer must rank as the biggest advance I've personally ever experienced - transforming the near impossible task of getting downwind on a big board into a joy.
Masttracks were another. Lets hope we have a similar revelation to celebrate soon. The Vortex is pretty quick upwind in all but very light conditions. I'd agree the sail is a little flat - faster in a breeze of course. The tip for lighter breezes is to have the lowers bar tight - so that with no kicker, the mast is either dead straight or even very slightly inverted. That helps the leach stand up, keeps a bit of fullness in the sail and so powers it up significantly. No cunningham whatsoever unless overpowered. (Quick tug to 'smooth creases' then let it off and leave it). Of course its not cut to be used with a jib, but as its quite a flat entry, I can't see that being a big problem. And yes, I can go to the bow on the Vortex - often do between races to adjust rig tension - but wouldn't dispute that the V twin will be more stable when thats needed! Edited by Hector - 20 Apr 12 at 1:13pm |
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Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew) 49er 688 (with Phil P) RS200 968 Vortex (occasionally) Laser 2049XX |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 19 Apr 12 at 10:54pm |
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I meant in the same way that rack to rack is a bit of a mission, it is very reminiscent of the Blaze.
had another Jib mare tonight, the thin spectra I'd used to save weight doesn't jam so well in the cleat when wet, and the kite halyard I managed to trap in between the main bolt rope guide and the mast, not to mention my new sheeting system totally un ravelling just as I launched into the shore break,the wind also dropped and went dead offshore, nothing like launching into breaking surf, with no main sheet or shortly after no jib control either.. One day I'm going to get it all working. I did surf a couple of biggish waves tonight without the slightest hint of nosing under, it was bloody horrible on off wind, hail storm and it had looked so promising earlier, so typical, just as the gun goes, so does the wind....
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blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 19 Apr 12 at 9:18pm |
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it's ponderous like a Blaze ..
?? How on earth were you tacking your Blaze then - all you needed to do is keep your weight forward in each tack and make sure tha rig rake was set up within the guidelines. Do it wrong and you will be s-l-o-w for sure but the idea is and always was to keep the stern 'UP' with this sort of hull ... I'd have thought with your weight this would have been a doddle. Some people seem to have the rake all wrong which can slow up tacking as the overall balance is all wrong - can you recall what the settings were ?. Incidentally I cut a fully retracting c'board into one of the first Tornado hulls to get to the UK (board that is) to great advantage around the same time or very slightly later as you were hacking the TC39 ... coincidentally that was the first board I defected to from dinghies ! (I think about £ 200 all in and brand new !) I also had a Turbo ... but it was not going to last long with the rate of development at the time and its durability proved a bit 'iffy' ..... old history now. btw I don't think you will ever get the vortex rig going that well - too small, too flat and far far too heavy and unresponsive and 'draggy' . Should have gone with a slimline 'nice and simple' Blaze or Halo rig ... and preferably in carbon ;-) Mike L. |
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 19 Apr 12 at 9:02am |
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Well with any luck, tonight might be the night I finally get to find out if the weather holds and it's not sheeting with rain and likely to freeze my butt.
But already it does enough of the stuff on that list, It must be faster than a bloody Vortex upwind, I've had to double the size of the jib, that Vortex sail is so Gutless and the few minutes prior to that video being shot where we did have some wind and a boat to compare against it more than matched a Contender (not that light wind and a none trapezed Contender is anything to shout about) in ability to point whilst still making the same way for that short period. Stable? Can you walk right up to the front and untangle the spinnaker without batting an eyelid in a Vortex? Easier to handle ashore? No it's not, one of the weaknesses is the lack of any sharp edges to grip everyone has asked for somewhere to grab to help it up the steep shingle at high tide. It tacks OK, it's ponderous like a Blaze, but the jib helps assure you it'll go round, it missed a couple of very low wind go a bouts with the small jib on the lake, then I spotted the centreboard wasn't down. Aesthetics, well they are in the eye of the beholder and I don't mind the way the Vortex looked, would indeed have owned one had it been more beach friendly as you know, and in truth it was the Vortex that inspired me to try something the same but different. I'm not 100% happy with the way it turned out, the snub nose serves no purpose because of the way they manufactured it, the design called for the pole to come out through the nose hence it being wide for the pole to swivel, but manufacturing constraints at the time prevented that. Other than that the colour choice Black and Red were mine . But until it lines up on a half decent start line with a half decent breeze and half the systems working properly, I'll not really know and if it doesn't then I'll have to take it apart, flip it and rework the under hull to see if I can improve whatever might be hindering performance.. It does work at least, even in the crappest conditions it can get round a race course when it might not have even managed that, the plate & rudder could have ventilated and not functioned, the balance could have been so screwed it just wouldn't sail and remained head to wind or bearing off continually. So either way it's still a fun project and better than trashing myself trying to make someone else's mistake go better with my limited time, ability, body mass and now inland revenue reduced funds and it's taking way longer than it would if it were being developed by a builder with access to decent water and rescue back up, but even so, cast your mind back.. How long would it have been before they put retracting centreboards and mast tracks in racing longboards if I hadn't cut a TC39 about in 79? Would Roger Tushingham and Lester Noble have broken through if I hadn't designed and had Parkers build a round board... Someone has to try this stuff, as it was it took until 82 before those things were in general production (the retracting centreboard, by 83 round boards were dead in the water mores the pity) so I'm recapturing my youth all over again probably thanks to the onset of senility, like I said to Andy Patterson on Facebook last night (he had a picture of the 88 Moth Euros that I RO'd) if you'd told me then what I'd be doing twenty years on I'd have sworn at you then said something like "put me down before i get that mental.."
Edited by G.R.F. - 19 Apr 12 at 9:12am |
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Hector
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 19 Apr 12 at 2:24am |
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Well if it doesn't get sailed against comparable boats it's never going to be properly tested. Almost any boat I've sailed feels ok in itself, but some feel great. So whilst all the following boats might seem fine when sailed in isolation, After Comparison, some might prefer Cadet to a Mirror, or an Ent to a GP. Some might like the 5o5 more than a Fireball and some a 29er to an RS500. The point is that you can't really tell without direct comparison. A large measure of the success of this design concept must be whether it does the things I listed better than the nearest comparable boat. (I accept that Graeme has done it for himself not us and in that sense it might work for him). If it doesn't, then what's the point?
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Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew) 49er 688 (with Phil P) RS200 968 Vortex (occasionally) Laser 2049XX |
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craiggo
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Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 12 at 10:46pm |
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Sorry Nibbler, you are of course right.
Double decker Ent it is! I like the paint job on the bottom one, perhaps we'll see it adorning a Merlin at next years dinghy show? |
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Nibbler
Newbie 
Joined: 17 Dec 11 Location: aft of you lot Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 12 at 8:45pm |
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zippyRN
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 12 at 8:13pm |
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I've seen a set of wheel clamps and stay bars used to carry banger racers on a skip truck ( driver owned a skip truck for real life job and didn't have the time, inclinatio or storage space to get a beavertail as well ) biggest ptorlbm is that skip trucks thnd to be 18 tonne day cabs
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craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 18 Apr 12 at 7:58pm |
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A double decker GP?
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