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Bruce Starbuck View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 10:38am
Originally posted by James W

I would have thought the worlds most competitive non-olympic one-design class is probably a keelboat class as there is silly money being thrown at it and more pros sailing them.

Have a look at the Melges 24 worlds entry clicky and note the amount of none corinthian teams and big names, the fleet is full of Olympians and World Champions of past and present. There are 54 teams currently entered and 33 of them are pros  now that is some hot competition.

Agreed. The list doesn't always show who is steering the boats either, like Gabrio Zandona who was helming one of the ITA boats. People like him and Vince Brun etc. are top, top sailors. 

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Posts: 8 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Max F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 10:51am
Melges sounds pretty difficult to beat.  Not that a pro always means that much.  It is a lifestyle choice as much as a measure of ability.
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Im sure that people who choose to become a pro as a life style are pretty good, only a fool would pay for someone rubbish to sail their boat.

But your right being a pro is not always as it seems in ISAF codes there are 3 different groups of sailors:

Group 3 - These are full professionals if you have one of these anywhere on your boat you are classes as a professional boat.

Group 2 - People who work in the sailing industry, if a group 2 person is helming, your boat is classed as a professional boat. 

Group 1 - Pure amateur, but group 1 helms are allowed group 2 crew and are still classed as a corinthian boat.
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Originally posted by James W

I would have thought the worlds most competitive non-olympic one-design class is probably a keelboat class as there is silly money being thrown at it and more pros sailing them.


However the evidence seems to suggest that top dinghy sailors can jump into just about any keelboat class and be very competetive, but the reverse happens rather less often...
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote James W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 9:03pm

Originally posted by JimC

However the evidence seems to suggest that top dinghy sailors can jump into just about any keelboat class and be very competetive, but the reverse happens rather less often...

True but those dinghy sailors normally jump into a boat that is full of professional tacticians, trimmers etc. So no wonder they get up to speed quickly.

I can't think of any top keelboat sailors that have jumped into a dinghy class to compete. The top dinghy sailors tend to have a bash in keelboats but I don't think the reverse happens.

 Maybe thats why it happens less often?

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Or possibly moving from a keelboat where you are part of a larger team with tacticans, trimmers, etc to a double  or single-handed dinghy isn't ideal as you don't have the support of the whole team. The tendancy for people in bigger boats is to focus on the job they are allocated, such as trimming the main etc and that works greatly on those boats, whereas if you focus completely on one task on a smaller boat, you generally don't figure as you have to be aware of the bigger picture and have to make judgements and calls based on your own and crew's knowledge and not the group effort of many. The pro's on the big boats are highly skilled but so are pro dinghy sailors and it's unfair really to say one is better than the other without putting them head to head on an equal playing field.

Edited by 49erGBR735HSC
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote James W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 10:08pm

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

The pro's on the big boats are highly skilled but so are pro dinghy sailors and it's unfair really to say one is better than the other without putting them head to head on an equal playing field.

Do you really get pro dinghy sailors that don't sail Olympic classes? The only ones that I can think of are Group 2's that work in the industry at places like speed sails and P&B etc. And some of the 18 footer guys which is a small percentage of the sailing world.

So if we are talking about Olympians jumping into other classes and doing well surely the fact that Olympians are sailing that class makes it more competitive improving its chances of being the most competitive none Olympic class.

I still think the most competitve non-Olympic class is going to be the class with the most pros in it which is probably a keelboat class.
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 11:02pm
Sorry my definition of pro was including sailors who would be classified under group 2 most likely, although most the group two sailors who sail for P&B, Harken etc are most likely Group 3 as they are getting paid to sail at events through sponsorship and not simply doing it for the sake of it.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 07 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by James W

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

The pro's on the big boats are highly skilled but so are pro dinghy sailors and it's unfair really to say one is better than the other without putting them head to head on an equal playing field.

I still think the most competitve non-Olympic class is going to be the class with the most pros in it which is probably a keelboat class.

James, if thinking that makes you feel good about sailing the m24 then just carry on thinking that... no need to try to convince all us dinghy sailors who think otherwise ...
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote James W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 07 at 11:28am
Originally posted by Guest#260

James W wrote:

49erGBR735HSC wrote:
The pro's on the big boats are highly skilled but so are pro dinghy sailors and it's unfair really to say one is better than the other without putting them head to head on an equal playing field.

I still think the most competitve non-Olympic class is going to be the class with the most pros in it which is probably a keelboat class.

James, if thinking that makes you feel good about sailing the m24 then just carry on thinking that... no need to try to convince all us dinghy sailors who think otherwise ...

Rick, the quotes that you have put in the post above are a bit misleading, the last line of my previous post was not a responce to what 49erGBR735HSC said it was a different paragraph and a different point (probably my fault I should have used 2 posts instead of 1). At no point have I said keelboat sailors are better than dinghy sailors I completely agree with the equal playing feild comment. All I have been trying to say is the most competitve non-Olympic class is probably the class with the most pros in it.

I just used the Melges 24 as an example as it is a class that I know about that has many pros sailing it and I don't know alot about other 1 design keelboats such as Farr 40s etc.

This has got nothing to do with trying to make myself feel good or convincing anybody of anything im just joining in the topic and expressing my opinions that I think have all been fair. If you disagree with them please post a reply to discuss rather than accusing me of making myself feel good and convincing others.
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