New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Sailing without safety cover
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Sailing without safety cover

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>
Author
Black no sugar View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 04
Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3941
Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing without safety cover
    Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 3:56pm

May I suggest you calm down a wee bit, dear Stuberry... You've been a member of this forum long enough to know that self-importance doesn't pay!  (Yeah, you never meant it like that... but that's the way it comes across).

So now, please... play nice

Back to Top
49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1991
Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Strawberry

Originally posted by charlie w

Who actually knows what their kit's limit is - especially in a "home build style of class".

I would suggest that someone who has spent years designing and building his own boats would have a much better impression of the limits of the boat, than a SMOD sailor who's sailing a boat which is INTENTIONALLY BUILT BADLY to comply with a licence.

That's quite a sweeping statement especially after the recent topics about Cherub sailors complaining about rescue cover when their boats fail.... (although its not limited to cherub sailors making the complaint).  I'm not jumping on any bandwagons but it has been mainly Cherub sailors making the complaint.

It's simple if you want to compare SMODs against Development boats, both sides list the ammount of gear failures they have and we see which is the most reliable......

I sail an SMOD that comes from the same boat-shed as some of the fastest 14s so reckon the build quality can't be that much different. There are poorly built SMODs and development class designs but its ignorant to say a boat is bad because its a SMOD or Development class.

Think most people consider home-built boats to be less quality than boats built by manufacturers due to the fact that home building is associated with an amatuer pursuit but if someone has the relative experience and means, it doesn't really make a difference if the boat is built in a garage or profesional boat shed.

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
Helensburgh S.C
Boat Insurance from Noble Marine

Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

Originally posted by Strawberry

Originally posted by charlie w

Who actually knows what their kit's limit is - especially in a "home build style of class".

I would suggest that someone who has spent years designing and building his own boats would have a much better impression of the limits of the boat, than a SMOD sailor who's sailing a boat which is INTENTIONALLY BUILT BADLY to comply with a licence.

That's quite a sweeping statement especially after the recent topics about Cherub sailors complaining about rescue cover when their boats fail.... (although its not limited to cherub sailors making the complaint).  I'm not jumping on any bandwagons but it has been mainly Cherub sailors making the complaint.

It's simple if you want to compare SMODs against Development boats, both sides list the ammount of gear failures they have and we see which is the most reliable......

I sail an SMOD that comes from the same boat-shed as some of the fastest 14s so reckon the build quality can't be that much different. There are poorly built SMODs and development class designs but its ignorant to say a boat is bad because its a SMOD or Development class.

Think most people consider home-built boats to be less quality than boats built by manufacturers due to the fact that home building is associated with an amatuer pursuit but if someone has the relative experience and means, it doesn't really make a difference if the boat is built in a garage or profesional boat shed.

Quite.

S'berry - statements like that just make you look stupid IMHO.

Rick

Back to Top
Strawberry View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1337
Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 5:50pm

My point is that if I build a boat myself and it fails then I have no one to blame but myself. By building the boat I understand it's strengths and weaknesses, and if I put the boat under stresses, which it is not built strong enough for, then that would be my stupidity. However, I will know what those limits are.

If on the other hand I had paid over the odds for a SMOD, I would not know how well it was built, and would not know the limits. Then when it broke I would well peeved.

The comment about boats being intentionally badly built originates from a post I read on Sailing Anarchy. The post was from the North American 49er builder, who said that he had to intentionally build the boats below quality, so they would be the same as all the other 9ers. I can't find the post atm, but if i get any spare time i'll have a look.

Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry
Back to Top
allanorton View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Nov 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 228
Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Strawberry

The comment about boats being intentionally badly built originates from a post I read on Sailing Anarchy. The post was from the North American 49er builder, who said that he had to intentionally build the boats below quality, so they would be the same as all the other 9ers. I can't find the post atm, but if i get any spare time i'll have a look.

How's a 49er a smod then?

Back to Top
Contender 541 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 05
Location: Burton on Trent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1402
Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

As for the rescue cover issue- I echo isis' point (in the related cherub thread) that any rescue cover is better than none, but the reason my N12 was written off was not becuase of the capsize I initiated through cocky big-breeze gybing antics; it was becuase the rescue cover at the time made some very dumb decisions... that said me and the crew were always safe, which is fundamentally the reason why we have rescue cover in the first place. 

[/SMOD sailor defending cherubby-madness] 

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Ask a no win no fee Lawyer (bloody nanny state skumbags)

 

 

When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780

Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:31am
Originally posted by Contender 541

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Yes, same thing. You apparently think otherwise but your post does not give a clue why.

 

Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Strawberry

I believe "craft intended solely for racing" are excluded from the RCD.

I am not sure that is correct - there are examptions from the RCD I believe for home built boats.

It is correct, Rick. That is the reason, for example, Melges/24s can be sold with the lifeline arrangement they use, which is very comfy for the helm but does not conform to RCD.

 

Back to Top
Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:45am

Originally posted by JimC

My somewhat controversial opinion is that like a lot of these EU things the main thing the RCD does is to make it difficult for one EU country to create regulations that put up barriers to importing things from other EU countries. It doesn't really do an awful lot for the end user other than putting the price of everything up.

RCD also makes it more difficult for non-EU boats to be imported, whether new or second-hand, and to believe this effect and the one you describe were among the objectives of the legislation isn't "controversial"; much of the impetus for the legislation came from the French boatbuilding industry. Does anyone really believe RCD makes sailing safer? It's sailors who make sailing safe or dangerous, not boats.

Back to Top
Contender 541 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 05
Location: Burton on Trent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1402
Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:58am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Contender 541

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Yes, same thing. You apparently think otherwise but your post does not give a clue why.

 

One implies a duty of care the other implies you will do something.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Nanny - sue me as soon as you look at me - state at its finest

 

When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy