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Amateur Sailor of the Year

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Poll Question: Who will win?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
11 [40.74%]
10 [37.04%]
1 [3.70%]
1 [3.70%]
3 [11.11%]
1 [3.70%]
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by laser47


We've got to a point where, according to this poll, the frontrunning nominee for an 'amatuer' award gained their nomination due to results achieved with two crews; one in that grey area of amateurism (derives 100% of income from a technical sailing role, sails 4 or 5 days a week, etc).

That's not a grey area however you look at it, sails 4/5 days a week, 100% income from a technical sailing role? Pro. beyond any shadow. If common sense is allowed to prevail the sailmaker who races at weekend and makes sails during the week is probably a little better than the typical amateur but he earns his crust with a sewing machine not a tiller......
 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 1:40pm
You guys might not count certain industry employees as pros but World Sailing (and the RRS) do. The theory being that you only need to be 1% better than joe average for it to be an advantage, so even if you sit behind a desk and only sail at weekends you pick up key knowledge that will help you get the most out of your boat and gear when racing, get time to spend thinking about and fettling your setup, get cheap or free gear and opportunities to improve your sailing that you would not otherwise...

We've got to a point where, according to this poll, the frontrunning nominee for an 'amatuer' award gained their nomination due to results achieved with two crews; one in that grey area of amateurism (derives 100% of income from a technical sailing role, sails 4 or 5 days a week, etc) and the other a card-carrying pro sailor.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 12:58pm
I really like racing against pros. Often if they drop in to a class then it's a tough ask for them to win and they tend to flesh out the top half of the results and just add some prestige to the event. 

Then those who have a history of spending time in a class I don't really mind either. They often still only have a couple of weekends a year to devote to it. 

As long as they get involved with the social and are engaging I don't think there's much of a downside. 

I wouldn't count industry employees as pros though. They're often behind a desk 9-5 and sneaking hours for training like the less of us. 

The issue is probably more apparent if they are racing the boat they sail professionally. It's still nice to line up every now and then but the scale of success is really stacked in their favour at this point (eg. 49er, 470, laser). This is perhaps why the Olympic classes struggle with domestic fleets. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 12:42pm
True enough, the pro definition needs to be for those who are paid to sail full time. Those who happen to work in the industry and do a bit of sail testing as part of the job should not be barred from entering. 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 12:34pm
I'd hate to see UK dinghy sailing get mired in the whole pro/amateur b******s...
And consider the case of someone who was a squad member say 18 months ago and has given that all up and just sails recreationally now, but still spends the time in the gym...

I'd much rather see other Olympic Squad members to do their class nationals in the UK and roll up to give Mr Saxton some competition...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 12:30pm
The Pro/amateur definitions need work, though, if you are going to do that. Maybe ask Olympic squad members to bow out gracefully. Seems a shame you couldn't do it because you work as a jockey for a sail maker in a National class. After all, in most of those cases the job came because of the skills and enthusiasm.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I think they should award the Endeavour trophy for the best amateur. 

Easier said than done. I've raced against plenty of industry pros in Cherubs and Canoes who have no more time and money to spend sailing than I do. In practical terms they're just as much amateurs as I am. World of difference between that and a olympic squad sailor who is fitness trained and coached to the limit.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 11:27am
I think they should award the Endeavour trophy for the best amateur. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 11:23am
I think Ben is a bit of an exception (along with James Peters and Stu Bithell) who alongside his Olympic pathway have always had one foot in the amateur scene, RS200 in particular. 

He's basically a pro sailor, but also the most experienced 200 helm in that fleet, so it's hard to disentangle the two. 

I don't think his results equate with how the average pro would do dropping in to a class they're not familiar with. I wouldn't expect a pro unfamiliar with a boat to beat to top amateurs in a top fleet.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 18 at 11:15am
Originally posted by JimC

The Endeavour illustrates it nicely. Mr Saxton has won 25 of the last 31 races, and only 3 times been out of the top 3. Don't get me wrong, I think its great he still has the enthusiasm to do amateur dinghy racing in his spare time rather than just grabbing pay cheques on leadmines, but I submit that if the Endeavour really wants to represent the best sailors in the country it needs to try and encourage the top squad member from all the Olympic classes to compete.

I think the organisers need to decide whether they want the event to represent the best sailors in the country or the best amateur sailors in the country. After all, it's called the Endeavour in honour of an amateur crew brought in to replace a professional crew in the America's Cup. At the moment the event is a bit of a hybrid, although no less interesting for that.
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