New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Rise Of The Ok etc
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Rise Of The Ok etc

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 24>
Author
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rise Of The Ok etc
    Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch

Originally posted by kneewrecker


I guess in a few years the Aero or Zero (race both together of the same PY FFS!!!)




Not sure how you think that could be sensible. First of all they were designed to different briefs and secondly they are different lengths and as has been debated many times, length is one of the most important factors in performance.

Now if there was a singlehander box rule that designers could design to that would be different


And the Aero will have 3 handicaps - which one will be the same?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 12:42pm
The one you rig on the day obviously?
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 12:43pm
That'll teach you to make throwaway remarks KW, even in brackets!

Edit: good intervening answer. You're going to need all three, aeroNAUTIC.

Edited by Medway Maniac - 04 Oct 14 at 12:45pm
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 2:59pm
Why would you need all three?  The extra weight and drag of going 'too big' when you don't need to (e.g. you're light!) is probably not worth the cost/hassle.  

Similarly, I could hardly see the point in ever owning the kiddy rig- unless you've got a kiddy to use it, then it's just great value.
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch

Originally posted by kneewrecker


I guess in a few years the Aero or Zero (race both together of the same PY FFS!!!)




Not sure how you think that could be sensible. First of all they were designed to different briefs and secondly they are different lengths and as has been debated many times, length is one of the most important factors in performance.

Now if there was a singlehander box rule that designers could design to that would be different

there you go, you got in the last sentence - they form the basis of a box rule, chuck a Rooster 8.1 into the mix for a 'cheap easy access option' for the parsimonious out there, bobs your uncle, fanny's your aunt... 

Immediately there's better racing for Laser owners who don't currently have fleet racing, and there's an option to upgrade to nicer and newer without the heartache and hassle of 'changing classes' and the social circle you interact with at your club.  
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 3:15pm
But if the box rule allows a 14 foot boat, why would anyone opt for the 13 foot boat? As soon as someone actually designed a decent boat to the rule, the other boats would be fighting to stay fast enough to be in the game.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 3:17pm
But as soon as you have a box rule both boats are immediately obsolescent because a boat to all the dimensions will be faster than either. And you also come up against the fundamental difference between the design of a box rule boat and a one design: When designing a one design your first priority is popularity - how well it will sail: the last few percents of peformance are well down the queue. By contrast with a box rule the priority must be performance, because if its not the fastest why bother. But I bet Dan H could comment more on the differences in the design process.
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Why would you need all three?  The extra weight and drag of going 'too big' when you don't need to (e.g. you're light!) is probably not worth the cost/hassle.  

Similarly, I could hardly see the point in ever owning the kiddy rig- unless you've got a kiddy to use it, then it's just great value.

Precisely so that you can rig the right one "on the day" of your box rule race, which is an on-the-water placings affair, no PY, is it not?  In a F.2, I'd be appreciably quicker round the course in an 8.1 Laser than using the  Radial rig 'appropriate' for my weight.  I'm guessing the Aero 9 would bring me a similar speed advantage  Smile.  In F.3, I'd switch to the 7, and F.5 and above the 5.  

I'm quicker upwind in a F.6 in a 4.7 than I am in a 5.7 or 7.1 (lower centre of effort than either, better aspect ratio than the 5.7)  - slower offwind, granted, but I don't chuck it in either!   A Feva kite would be handy, though.
Back to Top
kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1586
Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by JimC

But as soon as you have a box rule both boats are immediately obsolescent because a boat to all the dimensions will be faster than either. And you also come up against the fundamental difference between the design of a box rule boat and a one design: When designing a one design your first priority is popularity - how well it will sail: the last few percents of peformance are well down the queue. By contrast with a box rule the priority must be performance, because if its not the fastest why bother. But I bet Dan H could comment more on the differences in the design process.


One of the growing fleets at Rutland is A-Class cats despite most of them being obsolete. I didn't see one Phantom 377 or Exocet D2 at the NWF- I did however see 100 'obselete' longboards...
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 14 at 4:15pm
Would I be right in thinking that you really want to restrict your Box Rule Racing to one-designs, KW?

In which case you just need an homologation process to render boats eligible, like Group A in rallying and touring car racing.  Specify that, say 25 (or more) boats of a type have to have been built to qualify a class to race.  Builders to certify.

It's unlikely anyone would start a new class just to win your box-rule racing unless it really took off, in which case you grandfather existing classes and up the qualifying number to 100 or more...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 24>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy