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Advertising via sail numbers? 55

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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 5:17pm
......again.... Disapprove
the same, but different...

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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by tgruitt


If we are talking about the Tiger then wasn't the winner using Speed Sails? Can you find the bit of rules that prohibits the use of the winning sail? If it's correct then I guess that's a big can of worms opened.... Confused


The tapes are technically secondary reinforcement and the Fireball class rules on their web site (2011) limit the extent of that to a maximum of 960mm from the sail corner measurement points or Cunningham hole (see rule 20.3.2). Now it may be that those rules are out of date. That's something that needs to be established before the various idiots on this forum go off on their lynch mobbing.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 5:42pm
I'm waiting for the pushy parents to arrive and accuse us of picking on their boys....the suggest we go to specsavers, or worse.
the same, but different...

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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

Originally posted by tgruitt


If we are talking about the Tiger then wasn't the winner using Speed Sails? Can you find the bit of rules that prohibits the use of the winning sail? If it's correct then I guess that's a big can of worms opened.... Confused


The tapes are technically secondary reinforcement and the Fireball class rules on their web site (2011) limit the extent of that to a maximum of 960mm from the sail corner measurement points or Cunningham hole (see rule 20.3.2). Now it may be that those rules are out of date. That's something that needs to be established before the various idiots on this forum go off on their lynch mobbing.


Indeed SB I agree. Thanks for clarifying that a bit more, I just want to make sure the rules are established too.
Needs to sail more...
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 6:13pm
there are several ways of dealing with sail numbers:

-the laser way - yo sail with the registered sail number of the hull.
- total anarchy - any number will do

May I suggest an alternative - boats will sail with their registered sail number OR give a substantial donation to a designated charity for the right to change sail number.

Another suggestion - all boats shall be class legal. If they are not they may compete but with an automatic 20% handicap penalty. We do something similar in Echo habdicap in which boats new to the handicap system get a huge penalty, which adjusts after several races.

By the way - a boat that knowingly declares themselves to be class legal when they are not would be susceptible to a rule 2 protest, or a rule 69 hearing.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MattK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 6:22pm
The latest fireball rules are the 2012 edition, the link on the isaf site isn't working for me, but i would check these first before you go making accusations http://www.sailing.org/classesandequipment/20173.php

The win story, with a picture of those sails is top news item on the class association website, and not accompanied by the words, cheat or dishonest 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by gordon

there are several ways of dealing with sail numbers:

-the laser way - yo sail with the registered sail number of the hull.
- total anarchy - any number will do

May I suggest an alternative - boats will sail with their registered sail number OR give a substantial donation to a designated charity for the right to change sail number.

Another suggestion - all boats shall be class legal. If they are not they may compete but with an automatic 20% handicap penalty. We do something similar in Echo habdicap in which boats new to the handicap system get a huge penalty, which adjusts after several races.

By the way - a boat that knowingly declares themselves to be class legal when they are not would be susceptible to a rule 2 protest, or a rule 69 hearing.

I am surprised the NoR's for these events do not invite entrants to clearly state any deviation from class rules.
Yes, it would be reasonable to apply a handicap adjustment, but only to the upper limits of what can be plausibly gained. I reckon that would be never more than a percent or two for a change of sailcloth, fair sailing involves the race committee being fair too, and making a defensible estimate for a non-class boat.
I don't like the idea of people being able to buy the right for a special sail number, I think if someone has borrowed a sail or boat and wants to sail with a wrong number, that is a very different thing from advertising via the sail number. If it's a 'no advertising' event, then under the old rules, surely the sail number would still rank as advertising? In the same way as some boats have had to sail without displaying their names?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 7:11pm
Genuine question- who is making these 'Speed Sails' now anyway?  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Drylander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 8:01pm
They are made by Banks and marketed by Speed as they no longer have a loft.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 13 at 8:21pm
I guess there's no point funding a loft if you don't have any sailmakers.
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