New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Devotti Single Hander
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Devotti Single Hander

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 95>
Author
alstorer View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 07
Location: Cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2899
Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Devotti Single Hander
    Posted: 06 Jul 09 at 4:17pm

Originally posted by Mikey 14778

I vaguely recall a diagram that showed that the lift from an airfoil section is at 90 degrees to the 'flat'
surface (stop me if I get too technical here). So if you put your boom on the centreline then, if the book
is to be believed, the force will be at 90 deg to the direction you want to go and will all get soaked up by
the CLR.

But I'm not entirely convinced by this explanation. Anyone got a better one ?

But you're forgetting, in this example, that the sail is not a flat plane in line with the boom- it is, or should be, part of an aerofoil shape, with maximum curve (roughly, producing max power- but it's a lot more complicated than that in ways I don't even begin to pretend to understand) well forward and angledforward with respect to the plane of the boom.

-_
Al
Back to Top
Mikey 14778 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mikey 14778 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 09 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by alstorer

Originally posted by Mikey 14778

I vaguely recall a diagram that showed that the lift from an airfoil section is at 90
degrees to the 'flat' surface (stop me if I get too technical here). So if you put your boom on the centreline then, if the
book is to be believed, the force will be at 90 deg to the direction you want to go and will all get soaked up by the CLR.
But I'm not entirely convinced by this explanation. Anyone got a better one ?


But you're forgetting, in this example, that the sail is not a flat plane in line with the boom- it is, or should be, part
of an aerofoil shape, with maximum curve (roughly, producing max power- but it's a lot more complicated than that in ways I
don't even begin to pretend to understand) well forward and angledforward with respect to the plane of the boom.



Errm, yes, I know. I wasn't suggesting that the sail was flat, but that the force you get from it is at 90 deg to the 'flat'
surface, the line between mast and leech, ie (roughly) the boom.

In fact it all appears to be a lot more complicated than a simple diagram could explain, but that might be one for another
topic

Edited by Mikey 14778
Back to Top
Phil eltringham View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: England/Hitchin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1105
Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 09 at 6:10pm
i think the word you are looking for is CHORD (of the sail) rather than 'flat surface'
FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
Back to Top
Mikey 14778 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote Mikey 14778 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 09 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Phil eltringham

i think the word you are looking
for is CHORD (of the sail) rather than 'flat
surface'


Yep, that's the one!

Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 09 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Sten has it right on there - on a board the
sails are inherently more twisted so up from the foot of the sail the chord
line as you move up its height will be at some angle of attack -



Hmm not entirely true, most windsurf sails may fit that description but
old school Raceboard sails or even new Raceboard sails designed by
Raceboard Sail genii with super tight leeches built in Cuben Fibre don't fit
that descrpition.

But I get the power thing, it is a weight issue, big heavy old tubs would
need the power so don't sheet in too far nor over stuff it, heavy weights
penalty and of course they'll never know the lightweights joy of over
sheeting whilst looking down the clew on the rail five degrees higher and
a knot faster..

Edited by G.R.F.
Back to Top
sten View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 208
Post Options Post Options   Quote sten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 09 at 7:54am
Back to Top
sten View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 208
Post Options Post Options   Quote sten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 09 at 8:09am

first photo I found under "Raceboard Sail genii" nice board I want one

in most conditions its the fattys that can point higher because they can hold it down with lots of leach tension, if your heavy it needs to be windy before you can reach off because it won't plane with all that lard.

the best option for light people is the reach off  for speed and get the hieght back from increased lift off the foils.(in some conditions making you higher and faster)  if they try to pinch too much they havent got the weight to drive the boat and end up nodding.

for boards when you can't hold the rig down you just put a smaller one on and go faster with less drag.



Edited by sten
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 09 at 9:58am
At the risk of going off topic..
This is a Raceboard sail designed to function in much the way dinghy sails
should function, but with a little extra twist, well no twist actually it has a
hook the leech device for super light wind..
Built using Cuben Fibre it weighs 3 kgs is 9.5 sq mtr and would rock a
foiling moth..



Leech tight, closed and 'hooked' using head tensioner.

Head allowed to twist off..
Back to Top
sten View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 208
Post Options Post Options   Quote sten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 09 at 10:14am

Cuben fibre finn sails are super light too around 1kg lighter for a finn sail, but didn't last very long, about 1 week so they didn't get very popular. it was a long time ago so the fabric may have improved? nice head tensioner how does it work? can you adjust it whilst sailing.

Back to Top
Roy Race View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 275
Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 09 at 12:10pm

There's a lot of off-axis loading bouncing around in fully battened sails, much of it from batten ends. I just can't see this cross-cut sail lasting very long. Either that or the film on the Cuben would have to be quite thick or the patches very large to deal with these secondary loads and that would defeat the object of the exercise. (weight saving)

Look closely and you can already see some nasty bias stretch wrinkles coming out of the mast in the area just above the tack and from some of the batten ends.

Edit: The top 2 panels look like they are made from heavier cloth. The one below the window is the same cloth as the main body of the sail and is getting stretched badly on the bias.

 



Edited by Roy Race
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 95>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy